Sour kettle / Sour mash help or advice

[Mx750ktm]

Hello fellow Brewers,

Been a while since I have posted, been on the run in the Air Force.

Anyways I'm wanting to give a Berliner Weisse recipe a go. I've done a good bit of research both here and watching YouTube as well as talking with my local HBS owner. But I still have a few questions and just want to better my knowledge before brew day. I originally planned to use Wyeast 5223 Lactobacillus Brevis to kettle sour, Unfortunately that appears to be a sought after yeast strain as its sold out everywhere I have looked. Let me walk through briefly what I have planned and please advise if something seems off.

1.) Mash as normal, Cool to 110-120

2.) First Question ? I was told by the HBS Owner since I didn't buy yeast I could use some Un-Milled Pilsner malt which already has the same Lactobacillus bug in it. First off is this true and is anyone still doing this instead of using a dedicated yeast?

3.) I have read people have better success with kettle souring VS Sour mashing, So in my case if I decided to use the pilsner malt as my souring agent is there any issue in my draining from my mash tun after the mash into my boil kettle and pitching the grain in that?

4.) Still on using the un-milled malt as my souring agent I've both read and heard pitch a handfull? is that how it works or is there a precise amount of grain I should use?

5.) I will use lactic acid 88% to achieve a wort PH of roughly 4.5 before pitching/ purging with C02 and tightly covering the wort with saran wrap .... anyone see issues here

6.) I will use my Ferm chamber and heat lamps to maintain a temp 90-110 ( major fluctuation because I have never attempted to keep anything this warm so uncertain how warm I will be able to maintain it)

7.) I will sample every 12-Hours or so to check the acidity level and once at my desirable level continue with the boil... before boiling would I fish out the um-milled grain?

Any Advice or inputs would be great, appreciate you all and Happy Brewing!!!!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'll just present some basic info and hopefully answer your questions along the way.

The acid in fast sours is created by bacteria, Lactobacillus (not yeast). The temperature you need to hold while souring is strain-dependent. Hops inhibit souring, so we don't want any hops in the wort before it's sour.
Lactobacillus plantarum is the best for fast souring because it produces a nice clean sour quickly at a wide range of temperature (65-100°F). L. plantarum is available from Omega, The Yeast Bay, GoodBelly liquid, Swanson capsules, Renew Life Ultimate Flora capsules, etc.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources

Various wild bacteria and wild yeast live on grain. Souring from grain is definitely an option, but the results are somewhat unpredictable, with higher risk of off-flavors. You need to hold a relative high temperature (113-120°F). A specific quantity is not needed. Using grain to sour is practically the same as sour mashing since the microbes are the same. While it may add more "complexity," I generally don't recommend this method, especially for beginners.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Sour_Mashing

When fast souring, you have the option to kill the Lactobacillus, regardless of the source. When using a clean culture of L. plantarum, killing it isn't necessary since it's especially hop-sensitive. If souring with grain, I definitely would kill the wild microbes.

If you want to kill the Lacto: Mash, sparge, and lauter as normal. I recommend that you perform a short boil to ensure the wort and kettle are fully sanitized, as well as driving off oxygen. Chill, pre-acidify to 4.0-4.5, and add Lacto. Wait until sour. Boil, with hops if desired. Chill, aerate, and pitch yeast. High pitch rates are suggested.
During souring keep the kettle covered and air-tight as reasonably possible. Tasting doesn't really give a great idea about the level of sourness because the wort is still sweet and it masks the sour. Test strips are worthless. A pH meter is ideal. Otherwise you can just leave it for 1-3 days and hope for the best.
You may consider making a Lacto starter, depending on what source of Lacto you use.
If you used grain, it's best to remove it before boiling.

If you DON'T mind letting the Lacto survive, it's a lot more simple: Mash, sparge, lauter, and boil as normal (no hops). Chill, aerate, and pitch yeast and L. plantarum. Ferment at 65°F or higher and continue as normal.
This method is super easy and what I recommend for beginners.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Wort_Souring

Hope this helps.