so far the yeast I pitched a no hitter .

[Soulshine2]

Brewed an American Brown Ale on Wednesday . The yeast was a smack pack of WYeast 1450, which when my box arrived 4 days post ship , it was warm as was the cold pack it was wrapped in. Long story on the pack not being properly smacked and pitched without the nutrient "started" but instead pitched it with the nutrient as a chaser. As of this morning 36 hours post pitch ,I got nothing in the way of activity. Not a single bubble . I contacted the distributor yesterday after no activity and he said wait for today. He also asked if I had access to a LHMS if I need to get a replacement yeast. I have all kinds of local breweries here in North Alabama but I doubt they would sell yeast to the public. He gave me the name of Tom Hargraves Supply but then I read up and he has scammed many a homebrewer so Id rather not give him any of my money, but, I may have to .
So , today came and still nothing. In my brewing storage tub I had a couple old packets of Muntons dry brewing yeast ,so what I'm doing now is I drew approximately 4 oz of my lifeless wort into a sterile jar ,shook it up and pitched the Muntons to make a starter, a bit of a Hail Mary here ,but at this point I dont have much other choice without ordering some and have it be another 3 or 4 days . I THINK I see activity in the jar. Keeping my fingers crossed .
So , my question is - as long as a dry yeast is kept sealed ,how long is it still viable ?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Assuming you mean dry yeast that is still in the packet? That can be kept for a long time. Years from what I've heard.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Dry yeast usually lists a shelf life of a couple of years if not abused (frozen or baked). Can't hurt to try it. However, I wouldn't give up on the 1450. Smacking a smack pack just gives it a bit of a jump start. Not smacking it before pitching just means it will take a little longer to get going. In 6 years of brewing, I have never had a yeast fail to ferment. Most show signs of life in 12-24 hours but my personal record for longest start is 84 hours! You don't mention if the smack pack was inflated when you got it. If it wasn't, the yeast were most likely happily sleeping and are slow to wake up. Of course, there is the chance that the package was significantly abused in shipping but it takes a pretty high temp to actually kill yeast. Either way, can't hurt to wait a little more. Good luck. Cheers!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I'll say it's a bit easier to kill yeast than that. My 3rd brew, I attempted to rehydrate yeast in distilled water. 4 days later, no fermentation activity. Come to find out, distilled water kills yeast if you perform rehydration in it. So had to pitch in some US-05 and the next morning, it was chugging away.

 

[kh54s10]

I'll say it's a bit easier to kill yeast than that. My 3rd brew, I attempted to rehydrate yeast in distilled water. 4 days later, no fermentation activity. Come to find out, distilled water kills yeast if you perform rehydration in it. So had to pitch in some US-05 and the next morning, it was chugging away.

I am pretty sure that this is not true. It doesn't have minerals that would be beneficial to the yeast but I don't think it would kill the yeast. In 7+ years I have also never had yeast not perform. But with liquid yeast I always make a starter. I have used dry yeast that has been over a year old. I do keep it in the fridge though.

Best advice, always make a starter with liquid yeast, especially if you are concerned about the handling.

 

[mongoose33]

I am pretty sure that this is not true. It doesn't have minerals that would be beneficial to the yeast but I don't think it would kill the yeast. In 7+ years I have also never had yeast not perform. But with liquid yeast I always make a starter. I have used dry yeast that has been over a year old. I do keep it in the fridge though.

Best advice, always make a starter with liquid yeast, especially if you are concerned about the handling.

Actually, I think the truth is in the middle someplace. It's not good for the yeast to rehydrate in distilled water, but probably isn't going to kill them all.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I will have to dig back in my old threads to find out, but someone on this site was the one that told me that. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

 

[Rob2010SS]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/how-long-do-i-wait.634748/#post-8085638

Here it is... This was my 3rd brew and I posted the question in regards to not seeing any fermentation activity.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I am pretty sure that this is not true. It doesn't have minerals that would be beneficial to the yeast but I don't think it would kill the yeast. In 7+ years I have also never had yeast not perform. But with liquid yeast I always make a starter. I have used dry yeast that has been over a year old. I do keep it in the fridge though.

Best advice, always make a starter with liquid yeast, especially if you are concerned about the handling.

Since this brew, I've never had a yeast not perform either. However, on this one, it never came to life. The only thing different was the rehydrating in distilled water.

 

[Soulshine2]

I'll say it's a bit easier to kill yeast than that. My 3rd brew, I attempted to rehydrate yeast in distilled water. 4 days later, no fermentation activity. Come to find out, distilled water kills yeast if you perform rehydration in it. So had to pitch in some US-05 and the next morning, it was chugging away.

I agree, us o5 is a workhorse . Ill probably on my next order buy an extra just to have for these just in case times. I cant say whats happening exactly but i just checked and have a thin layer of kraeusen on top . Pitched the aggressive munton 2009 vintage starter early this morning.

 

[kh54s10]

I found a couple of articles that said distilled water will decrease viability including the one linked previously, they don't say that it will kill all the cells.
Here is one of them: https://learn.northernbrewer.com/hc...portance-of-Being-Hydrated-Dry-Yeast-Handling

So it could be that rehydrating in distilled water has lead to a lag time and it would have eventually fermented. It would be an underpitch since some of the yeast was certainly killed so repitching was probably best.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I found a couple of articles that said distilled water will decrease viability including the one linked previously, they don't say that it will kill all the cells.
Here is one of them: https://learn.northernbrewer.com/hc...portance-of-Being-Hydrated-Dry-Yeast-Handling

So it could be that rehydrating in distilled water has lead to a lag time and it would have eventually fermented. It would be an underpitch since some of the yeast was certainly killed so repitching was probably best.

Very well could be right. Lesson learned was don't rehydrate in distilled water on that one lol

 

[NinjaBear]

I have all kinds of local breweries here in North Alabama but I doubt they would sell yeast to the public.

If you can get the brewmaster into a friendly conversation on the day they are emptying the primary vessels. You might be able to convince them to give you a jar of the yeast slurry at the bottom.

As long as you’re making a similar variety of beer it will work for your yeast starter.

 

[LittleRiver]

...I have all kinds of local breweries here in North Alabama but I doubt they would sell yeast to the public....

It sucks that Wish You Were Beer in Huntsville has stopped selling homebrew supplies, they were only a half hour from you. Probably your closest homebrew store is now Beverage World in Fort Oglethorpe.

If you get in a pinch again I usually have a selection of yeast slurries and I'll be glad to give you some. I'm in Fort Payne.

 

[VVbrewery]

I had a similar issue with my last batch. Normally I make starters and rehydrate dry yeast but I was in a rush so I pitched a pack of dry yeast that I just got from the LHBS and was well before the best by date into the fermenter, let it sit for about 15 minutes then swirled it in. Not the best practice but I've done it before and it's worked. Three days later and nothing, no sign of fermentation at all. Back to the LHBS, pitched two vials of liquid yeast and 8 hours later it was chugging along nicely.
Needless to say I will be rehydrating when using dry yeast in the future and will probably be sticking to liquid yeasts and starters.

 

[NinjaBear]

I found if you didn’t pre-rehydrate and using dry yeast…

After using your wort chiller to drop the temperature to 80-85°, put your dry yeast into the bottom of your primary and pour the wort over the top of it.

This has been the fastest and most vigorous pitch method I’ve found for dry yeast.

 

[Soulshine2]

It sucks that Wish You Were Beer in Huntsville has stopped selling homebrew supplies, they were only a half hour from you. Probably your closest homebrew store is now Beverage World in Fort Oglethorpe.

If you get in a pinch again I usually have a selection of yeast slurries and I'll be glad to give you some. I'm in Fort Payne.

somehow i missed this while reading yesterday. I very much appreciate the offer. My wife and I get up to Ft Payne about once a month,Little River Canyon and Desoto . We were just up that way last weekend. Very pretty area. If we had another choice besides moving here to Grant , we'd have bought up there. PM me your phone number /address, next time we're up that way if we have time , we'll stop in .

 

[Soulshine2]

I found if you didn’t pre-rehydrate and using dry yeast…

After using your wort chiller to drop the temperature to 80-85°, put your dry yeast into the bottom of your primary and pour the wort over the top of it.

This has been the fastest and most vigorous pitch method I’ve found for dry yeast.

normally when I transfer my wort to the fermenter I run it through a 1/2" hose and let it splash to aerate. I've done well that way.

 

[Soulshine2]

If you can get the brewmaster into a friendly conversation on the day they are emptying the primary vessels. You might be able to convince them to give you a jar of the yeast slurry at the bottom.

As long as you’re making a similar variety of beer it will work for your yeast starter.

I never thought of that . We go to Straight to Ale for lunch and a beer once in a while. Worth a shot.

 

[Soulshine2]

Ok , so I did a FG test this morning and I need to run my numbers by y'all and see if you think its ready to bottle or a better calculation of what I'll end up with ABV-wise. Depending on pitch time , today is either day 7 or 5.
Recapping- American Brown Ale ,5 gallon AG.
pitched the Wyeast 1450 on Wed(smack pack)then 36 hours later with no action visible pitched the vintage Muntons on top (dry,started for viability test) Friday morn.
Fermentation temp- 68-70*F ambient ,insulated.
OG target - 1.057
OG actual- 1.060
FG target -1.012
FG actual as of this morning - 1.020
expected ABV 5.7%
should i bottle tomorrow or let it go until Sunday?
The sample I took for the test I put up in a Grolsch bottle with 1/4 tsp of priming sugar. I'm kinda cheap and didn't feel like pouring the sample down the drain and I sure wasn't going to put it back in the fermenter.
btw, it smelled really good and has a nice dark brown color .I'm hoping it will clear up more while secondary/bottle fermenting.

 

[kh54s10]

Personally I would leave it in primary for another week. Yeast will ferment the beer, then it is said they will continue working cleaning up undesirable flavors that are a byproduct of fermentation.

If you are only at day 5 (unknown because we don't really know if the first pitch was truly inactive) you might not be at final gravity. If you bottle too early and there is further fermentation in the bottles they could get to a pressure that will explode the bottle. The only fermentation you want in the bottles is that of the priming sugar to add carbonation. Any other fermentation is bad.

I didn't see if this is an extract recipe or all grain. If it is an extract recipe they often stop at 1.020. But I would wait at least until tomorrow and take another gravity reading. If it is still 1.020 it is probably done fermenting. If it is lower, it is still fermenting and you cannot bottle it. Again I would still give it another 7 days.

 

[NinjaBear]

If the fermentation has slowed down and isn’t as active anymore… but the FG isn’t dropping any more.

Transfer to a secondary. They extra agitation can get the yeast kicking the final leg of the race…

If that doesn’t work and you have the headspace available. You can make a mixture of water, yeast nutrients, and corn sugar and top off the secondary with that.

 

[kh54s10]

No need for a secondary at all. It will not help anything and may lead to oxidation or contamination.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Agreed with @kh54s10 no need for a secondary. The risk for contamination/oxidation is too great for hardly any benefit.

 

[Soulshine2]

Personally I would leave it in primary for another week. Yeast will ferment the beer, then it is said they will continue working cleaning up undesirable flavors that are a byproduct of fermentation.

If you are only at day 5 (unknown because we don't really know if the first pitch was truly inactive) you might not be at final gravity. If you bottle too early and there is further fermentation in the bottles they could get to a pressure that will explode the bottle. The only fermentation you want in the bottles is that of the priming sugar to add carbonation. Any other fermentation is bad.

I didn't see if this is an extract recipe or all grain. If it is an extract recipe they often stop at 1.020. But I would wait at least until tomorrow and take another gravity reading. If it is still 1.020 it is probably done fermenting. If it is lower, it is still fermenting and you cannot bottle it. Again I would still give it another 7 days.

Its an all grain

 

[Soulshine2]

I suppose it would make a difference in the fg because the yeast that activated was different from the yeast i was given in the beginning and would therefore be different from the expected fg outcome. Am i thinking right?

 

[kh54s10]

The two different yeasts could definitely take you to different final gravities. But what is more important is to be sure that you actually have FG and that the beer is ready to be bottled. Another consideration is to allow enough time for suspended solids and excess yeast cells have time to settle out of solution.

 

[Soulshine2]

Ok, thank you . I'll wait on it then. It wasnt exactly cleared up yet when I pulled the sample this morning. Still a bit "murky" .