Slow fermentation with Wyeast 3068

[pdickerson76]

So I'm confused. I've done a lot of research before brewing my Hefeweizen. It seems like everyone has a fast and furious fermentation with this yeast. I brewed Friday morning, pitched yeast at noon. Og was 1.055. Made a 1.3L starter. I've had no vigorous fermentation. This pic was taken 5 minutes ago. Started out at 63° and bumped up to 65 a day ago. I guess I assumed the krausen would have dropped off by now. Plan on doing a gravity reading on Thursday night and had Hope's of kegging Sunday night. I know I'm on the lower side of temps, and that's what I planned for. Anyone have any encouraging words for this? Am I just being impatient?

 

[VikeMan]

Am I just being impatient?

Probably. 63F really is on the lower end for the strain. How old was your yeast? And was it sluggish in the starter?

 

[pdickerson76]

Probably. 63F really is on the lower end for the strain. How old was your yeast? And was it sluggish in the starter?

I honestly didn't record the date of the yeast but here's the story. I ordered all my ingredients and yeast on a Sunday night. It didn't ship till the following Friday afternoon. The yeast sat in a UPS terminal till it was delivered on Tuesday. I contacted the brew supply company and told them my concerns. Was told it should be fine. So I smacked the pack and it did swell up before I pitched it in the starter. This was my first starter attempt so I wasn't sure what I was looking for. I had it on a plate for 18 hours then I chilled it in the fridge overnight.

 

[pdickerson76]

I was considering bumping up temps to 68 but I don't want a banana bomb. That's why I chose the low end.

 

[Snuffy]

I honestly didn't record the date of the yeast but here's the story. I ordered all my ingredients and yeast on a Sunday night. It didn't ship till the following Friday afternoon. The yeast sat in a UPS terminal till it was delivered on Tuesday. I contacted the brew supply company and told them my concerns. Was told it should be fine. So I smacked the pack and it did swell up before I pitched it in the starter. This was my first starter attempt so I wasn't sure what I was looking for. I had it on a plate for 18 hours then I chilled it in the fridge overnight.

Why did you chill your starter? Just curious. I'd think you'd want it revved up and ready to pitch. And I've never made a starter with a smack pack. Once you smack it, it kind of IS a starter. And I think under pitching a hefe is a good thing anyway.

 

[pdickerson76]

Why did you chill your starter? Just curious. I'd think you'd want it revved up and ready to pitch. And I've never made a starter with a smack pack. Once you smack it, it kind of IS a starter. And I think under pitching a hefe is a good thing anyway.

I have been having issues with my brews lately. Under pitched 2 different brews so I felt a starter was the way to go. I chilled it down to separate the wort from yeast. In the morning I dumped off the wort and let it sit at room temp about 5 hours before it was pitched.

 

[VikeMan]

Once you smack it, it kind of IS a starter.

It's really not. At least not in the sense of significantly increasing cell count, which is what starters are (mainly) for. Smacking the pack does serve to "proof" the yeast, which a starter does also.

 

[VikeMan]

I honestly didn't record the date of the yeast but here's the story. I ordered all my ingredients and yeast on a Sunday night. It didn't ship till the following Friday afternoon. The yeast sat in a UPS terminal till it was delivered on Tuesday. I contacted the brew supply company and told them my concerns. Was told it should be fine. So I smacked the pack and it did swell up before I pitched it in the starter. This was my first starter attempt so I wasn't sure what I was looking for. I had it on a plate for 18 hours then I chilled it in the fridge overnight.

So, you most likely had a not ideal amount of viable yeast in the pack, but enough to swell the pack and make a starter. I imagine your beer will be alright.

It's interesting your supplier said the yeast "should be fine." They should have at least acknowledged that the yeast were dying off at a higher than normal (refrigerated) rate.

 

[pdickerson76]

So, you most likely had a not ideal amount of viable yeast in the pack, but enough to swell the pack and make a starter. I imagine your beer will be alright.

It's interesting your supplier said the yeast "should be fine." They should have at least acknowledged that the yeast were dying off at a higher than normal (refrigerated) rate.

Yeah, I was not too happy with the delayed shipment. Live and learn I guess. It's a 3 hour drive one way for me to hit up a HB shop so ordering was the best option. My purpose for this brew was a quick turn around for a fermentation, something that could be kegged up quickly. I'm guessing during to my low temps and possible yeast issues that that's not going to happen.

 

[thehaze]

I've used 3068 and Munich Classic ( Lallemand's dry version of Weihenstephaner weiss yeast ) several times, and both crawled out of the fermenter, with an almost 2 gallon worth of headspace ( Speidel 30L ). Weihenstephaner will feature both banana and clove, which you can't avoid, but a lower temperature will probably result in a " clovier weiss ". 63-65F is too low, even when avoiding a stronger banana aroma.

Weihenstephaner can be fermented up to around 75-76F. At 68-72F the yeast will finish in 2, maybe 3 days or so. It's really quick. Beer should've already have reached FG after 5 whole days. The main bulk of fermentation - which is different for every yeast - the first few days, is when the estery and phenolic profile of the beer will be developed. This means, after 3-5 days you can raise the temperature with 4-6F to encourage the yeast to finish and clean after itself, etc. Raising the temperature now, will not create a banana bomb.

I think your low temperature did dampen the fermentation and prolonged it with a few days. I package all my weiss biers at day 9 or 10 from yeast pitch. I do underpitch on purpose and it works well.

 

[pdickerson76]

I've used 3068 and Munich Classic ( Lallemand's dry version of Weihenstephaner weiss yeast ) several times, and both crawled out of the fermenter, with an almost 2 gallon worth of headspace ( Speidel 30L ). Weihenstephaner will feature both banana and clove, which you can't avoid, but a lower temperature will probably result in a " clovier weiss ". 63-65F is too low, even when avoiding a stronger banana aroma.

Weihenstephaner can be fermented up to around 75-76F. At 68-72F the yeast will finish in 2, maybe 3 days or so. It's really quick. Beer should've already have reached FG after 5 whole days. The main bulk of fermentation - which is different for every yeast - the first few days, is when the estery and phenolic profile of the beer will be developed. This means, after 3-5 days you can raise the temperature with 4-6F to encourage the yeast to finish and clean after itself, etc. Raising the temperature now, will not create a banana bomb.

I think your low temperature did dampen the fermentation and prolonged it with a few days. I package all my weiss biers at day 9 or 10 from yeast pitch. I do underpitch on purpose and it works well.

Really appreciate all this knowledge you shared. After continued research and reading your post I assumed that my low temps were a cause for the sluggish start. I did bump temps to 68 yesterday afternoon so I guess we will see where that takes it. I just hope that the slower fermentation doesn't matter as far as the beer finishing up.

 

[thehaze]

The yeast will finish fermenting either way ( if it hasn't already ). The lower temperature will simply prolong the overall time the beer has to be in the fermenter. It will still be good or very good. Some yeast ( but of course a lot more factors than just temperature alone are involved ) can / would benefit from a slight increase in temperature at the tail of fermentation, just to make sure they eat all available sugars. Some yeast can / will create sulphur or even diacetyl, both needing time to dissipate prior to packaging. So whether fermentation has taken 5 or 10 days, you would still want the yeast to spend some additional time in/with the beer, just to make sure those (off)-flavours don't end up in the final beer. Just as a side note: Kveik strains, which are very popular now, are a delightful breed, that ferment extremely quick and as far as I've experimented and read on the Internet, don't require any diacetyl rest or anything else and can be packaged at day 5-6. But they too are slower to finish when fermented under 30-35C.

So fermentation matters and should be treat it with care, as to create the beer, you want to drink. In your case, along with the fact that you don't want proeminent banana esters, the beer will not have suffered from the lower temperature and would still finish fermenting, even if choosing not to raise the temperature. Cheers.

 

[pdickerson76]

The yeast will finish fermenting either way ( if it hasn't already ). The lower temperature will simply prolong the overall time the beer has to be in the fermenter. It will still be good or very good. Some yeast ( but of course a lot more factors than just temperature alone are involved ) can / would benefit from a slight increase in temperature at the tail of fermentation, just to make sure they eat all available sugars. Some yeast can / will create sulphur or even diacetyl, both needing time to dissipate prior to packaging. So whether fermentation has taken 5 or 10 days, you would still want the yeast to spend some additional time in/with the beer, just to make sure those (off)-flavours don't end up in the final beer. Just as a side note: Kveik strains, which are very popular now, are a delightful breed, that ferment extremely quick and as far as I've experimented and read on the Internet, don't require any diacetyl rest or anything else and can be packaged at day 5-6. But they too are slower to finish when fermented under 30-35C.

So fermentation matters and should be treat it with care, as to create the beer, you want to drink. In your case, along with the fact that you don't want proeminent banana esters, the beer will not have suffered from the lower temperature and would still finish fermenting, even if choosing not to raise the temperature. Cheers.

Thanks again for being so helpful. I peeked again this morning and the krausen still hasn't dropped. I'm not really worried about it, just more curious as to where the gravity is sitting. I'm new to all of this, trying to learn the ropes again after not brewing for 5 years, so still a little on the anxious side. Would the krausen cause any kind of false readings if I were to check gravity tonight?

 

[VikeMan]

Would the krausen cause any kind of false readings if I were to check gravity tonight?

Don't sample the krausen. Pull a sample from the beer underneath.

 

[pdickerson76]

I use a wine thief so I'll have to go through it to get to the beer. That's where my concern is. I usually have to pull 3 different times to get enough in the hydrometer testing tube.

 

[VikeMan]

I use a wine thief so I'll have to go through it to get to the beer. That's where my concern is. I usually have to pull 3 different times to get enough in the hydrometer testing tube.

If you get more than a tiny amount of krausen in your test jar, you could scoop it out (if floating) or strain it. But I really doubt it will be an issue.

 

[pdickerson76]

If you get more than a tiny amount of krausen in your test jar, you could scoop it out (if floating) or strain it. But I really doubt it will be an issue.

I like the straining idea. I'll go that route!

 

[pdickerson76]

Did a gravity test this morning and it's sitting at 1.014. I'd call that done. Krausen has still not dropped out either