Weak Beers

[mouthfullofbeer]

I'm frustrated and quite frankly, embarrassed.

5 AG brews and it's the same thing over and over. 50% efficiency just isn't cutting it. i have read about 1000 posts on increasing efficiency and have tried so many of those suggestions. checking crush, not stirring enough, cooling wort for readings, etc... i even upgraded my mash tun & added a cpvc manifold following several designs from brewers here and still, same results of %50. and no, i cant just buy more base grains to compensate for this loss. it's just not practical.

now, i'm not just shooting for numbers here. i want to make good beer. the beers i'm making taste good, but for example, even my tiny wife who has 1 beer and is tipsy complained that "...she's going to need something else if she wants to feel anything". how about that for a blow to the brewer ego for ya!

please help

 

[glugglug]

What method are you using to sparge?

I batch sparge, and I found that if I split my sparge in 2, I get a better efficiency. If you fly sparge, perhaps you're going too fast. My efficiencies were in the crapper. Now they're good. My beers taste pretty good. Don't give up. You'll get it dialed in.

 

[amandabab]

have you checked your thermometers against a known good one?
did you get a digital probe thermometer cable wet?

 

[billl]

I think you are going to need to provide more specifics on your process and recipes if you want detailed advice.

 

[tmoney645]

I would check your thermometer against another. If you are consistently getting around 50% while changing your methods something is up.

 

[rsmjack]

just a temp solution, chuck some dextrose in there?

 

[mouthfullofbeer]

i figured i was leaving out some details. sorry about that, didnt want to post a novel up here.

i batch sparge. weird thing is i routinely come up 1.75g short on pre-boil with the suggested h2o volumes beersmith comes up with. i know i lose .5g to my mlt for dead space, and i guess the other 1.25g is coming from grain consumption. is that normal?

i never thought about splitting my sparge step. i suppose another good stir of the mash wouldnt be a bad thing.

i use the thermometer that came with my turkey fryer. never thought of checcking it against another one but that's easy enough to do.

 

[GrogNerd]

for my next batch, beersmith says 12 lbs of grain would absorb 1.5 gallons of a 5 gallon strike, so 1.25 gals doesn't sound out of the ordinary

and the thermometer I got with my WalMart turkey fryer is complete & total piece of garbage.

 

[billl]

If you are coming up short on total pre-boil volume and then topping up with water, that is likely most of your problem. 1.75 is 25% of your 7 gallon total, so getting your volumes in line could easily be a 25% bump right there.

 

[GrogNerd]

If you are coming up short on total pre-boil volume and then topping up with water, that is likely most of your problem. 1.75 is 25% of your 7 gallon total, so getting your volumes in line could easily be a 25% bump right there.

yep

instead of topping off, throw that 1.75gal in as a sparge. dead space and absorption is already accounted for, so you should get all of that back

 

[DPBISME]

I try to have equal sparges because I read John Palmers Book.

1. I do a Single infusion.
2. Mashout (170 F) with enough water for the first sparge.
3. Wait at least 10 minutes and stir a couple times to allow the sugars to disolve
4. Transfer to the Kettle.
5. Look at the Site glass to confirm how much I "really" need"
6. Add the second sparge water (170-172 F)
7. Wait at least 10 minutes and stir a couple times to allow the sugars to disolve
8. Transfer to Kettle (which has already been warming up with the first half of the wort)

I came up with the Double check how much water you need becasue I never hit my temps and have to adjust...

 

[Transamguy77]

You could also over sparge by 1/2 a gallon and just boil off, the thermometer that came with my turkey fryer was 8 degrees too high when I checked it against a known good one, check your thermometer.

 

[mouthfullofbeer]

hmm interesting. i'll add that 1.75 i'm losing into my sparge volume and see how it goes.

one other thing about my process.. after my strike has been lautered to kettle, i put the lid on it, then add my sparge, stir, wait 10 minutes, then add sparge runoff to kettle. at that point i calculate how much i'm missing (1.75g), then i heat up the kettle to boiling. while i'm bringing it to boil, i heat up 1.75 to boiling and toss that in the kettle (this happens before it reaches boil). does anyone see anything wrong with this? should i grab my first strike runoff and start the boil immediately even before batch sparge runoff has been added to the kettle?

 

[billl]

If you are going to batch sparge....

Measure the first runnings. eg 2.5 gallons. If you need 7 gallons to start your boil, sparge with 4.5 gallons. Just always heat up extra sparge water until you know for sure how much you'll need. You can start heating your first running right away if you want.

If you add topoff water vs sparging the right amount, that is the same as just diluting your beer with water. That is definitely not a good standard practice and

 

[amandabab]

i use the thermometer that came with my turkey fryer. never thought of checcking it against another one but that's easy enough to do.

the turkey fryer thermometer is a big part of your problem.
a 400 degrees scale wont have the accuracy and/or dial detail in the mash range thats critical for us

it covers the mash range but is calibrated for accuracy in the hot range where its critical for hot oil

 

[Stauffbier]

hmm interesting. i'll add that 1.75 i'm losing into my sparge volume and see how it goes.

i heat up 1.75 to boiling and toss that in the kettle (this happens before it reaches boil). does anyone see anything wrong with this??

This is definitely your problem. As mentioned above, if you're short on water you need to add that amount to your sparge. If you just dump more water in to the kettle you are diluting your beer, and that's why it's too weak.

Next time you brew, post your grain bill here. We can help you calculate water volumes.

 

[mouthfullofbeer]

I just picked up a Taylor 1470 digital thermometer that ill be using from now on. The replies here make total sense that this is part of the problem.

The other glaring problem I'm reading here is my batch sparge process. Next time I'm going to add an additional 1.75g on top of what beersmith suggests for sparge volume instead of topping up with water and diluting my beer. I just need to figure out how to add that by default to my beersmith mash profile.

Ill repost after my next batch with my results but I did want to thank you who replied. Super helpful as always.

 

[Stauffbier]

It sounds like you need to go back to your beersmith and re-dial in your profiles. If you input grain absorption, boil off, and dead space along with the appropriate equipment profile you shouldn't have to go back and add amounts to your volumes.

Good luck with your future batches. I'm sure you'll get it all figured out.

 

[masskrug]

Be careful! I had a similar thermometer and it went haywire as soon as the cable got wet. I ordered a replacement and it malfunctioned the very next batch. I now just stick with a hard probed thermometer.

 

[GrogNerd]

I have a similar model thermometer and applied some heat-shrink tubing where the metal probe is attached to the wire. have had no problem submersing it in the mash or the strike water

 

[Stauffbier]

I have a similar model thermometer and applied some heat-shrink tubing where the metal probe is attached to the wire. have had no problem submersing it in the mash or the strike water

I did the same thing a couple years ago. I used it quite a few times without problems, then one day steam found its way passed the heat-shrink. It immediately fried it!

 

[danielbt]

I just need to figure out how to add that by default to my beersmith mash profile.

This is probably all of your problem. If your profile is not accurate in Beersmith, everything is going to be off.

Please post an actual recipe you've used, the OG and FG you've measured, and describe the equipment you've used to measure gravity, volume, and temperature.

I highly recommend a ThermoWorks probe thermometer. They often have factory refurb sales, which can land you a great piece of equipment for $65ish.

 

[mouthfullofbeer]

thanks folks! i read enough replies & online reviews to indicate it could be a hassle, so i ended up getting a thermoworks little pocket thermometer. execllent reviews, we'll see how it goes.

...and i think i figured out my beersmith profiles. since i noticed i was coming up 1.75g short a few brews ago, i put 1.75g in for "top up water into boiler". i removed that and it automatically added that to the strike/sparge water volumes. strange but true, i think. still learning this software.

thanks again!

 

[mouthfullofbeer]

Please post an actual recipe you've used, the OG and FG you've measured, and describe the equipment you've used to measure gravity, volume, and temperature.

I'm 85% sure these were my numbers.. sadly, i've monkeyed with my profiles so much over the past few brews that i'm not even sure anymore.. anyways, here's a milk stout.. should've been 8% abv, i got 5%.

My OG=1.062
My FG=1.010

Brewer: Me
Asst Brewer:
Style: Sweet Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.04 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.10 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 30.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 92.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs 13.7 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 56.8 %
1 lbs 3.5 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 2 7.8 %
1 lbs 3.5 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.8 %
14.2 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.7 %
12.4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.0 %
12.4 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.0 %
8.8 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.5 %
0.32 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 11.2 IBUs
1 lbs 5.1 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) [Boil for 15 min](0 Sugar 9 8.4 %
0.46 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 10 2.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 9.5 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 19.84 qt of water at 164.0 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 1 steps (2.54gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
add lactose with 20 minutes left in the boil and stir

 

[gpack]

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

I followed these instructions. I went from 60% batch sparging to around 84% once I got the techniques down. Denny has it right.

 

[gpack]

look like beersmith has you expecting 90+% mash efficiency.

 

[daksin]

Yea, take good readings of everything and try to calculate your mash efficiency, lauter efficiency, and brewhouse efficiencies and see where your problem starts.