Bread Yeast for an Ale

[agroff383]

Anybody ever use it? I want to know really how different it is from regular store bought bread yeast. I wouldn't waste 5 gallons trying it though.

 

[boo boo]

Many moons ago, probably before you were born, I used this yeast to ferment beer and wine.
Tasted terrible.

 

[Revvy]

Old post of mine from a few years ago

People have been using bread yeast since time immemoria, long before there were different, cleaner tasting, strains for brewing. In fact if you look at the first beer recipe, the "Hymn to Ninkasi" in the Tales of Gilgamesh,you will find that a special bread was baked, and that bread was added to the cooling mash...it was the yeast from this "Bappir" bread that induced fermentation.

The Maltose falcons and Anchor brewing worked on recreating the recipe several years ago, here's a pic of what they think the bappir looked like.

It's also been used my mead makers as well...

Here's the basic brewing video on using bread yeast. http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=trading-places-beer-and-bread-yeast you'll find the results surprising. They pretty much shoot down the off flavor idea....

Also check out Michael Tonsmier the Mad fermentationalist's experiments with different yeasts.

September 20, 2007 - Offbeat Yeast Part One
Michael Tonsmeire, the Mad Fermentationist from Washington D.C., shares some of his beers made with other-than-normal yeast. In this episode: Kvass, Flanders Red, and a Strong, Dark Belgian.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr09-20-07offbeatyeast.mp3

September 27, 2007 - Offbeat Yeast Part Two
We continue our tasting with Michael Tonsmeire, the Mad Fermentationist from Washington D.C. This week, all the beers are fermented with Brettanomyces.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr09-27-07offbeatyeast2.mp3

In other words, it's been used forever, and is still being used by brewers and mead makers, especially those without access to beer yeasts (THere was a guy on here this winter from Bulgaria who can't get any brewing ingredients). And also it is used currently by some people on the Grocery and produce experiment thread.

It won't kill you, it may or may not produce negative flavors in the beer (most of this is lore/conjecture passed on by people who haven't even actually tried it.)

Certain beers may even benefit from the "bready" taste that may be produced, think Kvass or a dark beer with a lot of roasty and biscuity malts in it.

Plus Experimentation is fun.

From this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bread-yeast-71348/

 

[Cowbizzoy]

Although not an ale...I used Fleishman's bread yeast in my first batch of mead... (JAOM)

I think it turned out pretty well....so well...i wondered about using it in a beer...

 

[McNulty]

First batch of Apfelwein I made was with Red Star yeast and it tasted just like bread, apples, and butt. Even after a year of "aging" it still tasted more like bread than anything. But, keep in mind it fermented at around 75F. Also it was the warmest buzz ever, with the worst hangover ever from all the fusels. Apfuselwein...

 

[Captain Damage]

I did it just to try it. The beer was fine - good, even. There was no off flavor or any noticeable defect. It did NOT have a "yeasty" flavor. I'd do it again. That said, it's low-flocculating and and moderately attenuating and doesn't have a signature ester profile.

 

[agroff383]

I did it just to try it. The beer was fine - good, even. There was no off flavor or any noticeable defect. It did NOT have a "yeasty" flavor. I'd do it again. That said, it's low-flocculating and and moderately attenuating and doesn't have a signature ester profile.

Cool this is the kind of answer I wanted lol. Not some 15 year old did it with some Welch's and it tasted like hell... I just want to know what the major fundamental difference is between this yeast and Nottingham. I assume it was developed over time to make bread work and not beer, like nobody cares about flocculation when making a loaf. Just wondered if it could be used in any way shape or form...I will just keep some dry yeast around as always haha.

 

[agroff383]

Old post of mine from a few years ago




From this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bread-yeast-71348/

good thread and reading...thanks revvy!

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Bread yeast stardards are not that high I would think, since it will be baked to kill all of the bacteria. I would think that the beer yeast would have to have a higher yeast to bacteria ratio. If it is a matter of price the beer yeast is not very expensive.

Forrest

 

[cgondoli1]

Beer yeast is a bacteria.

 

[Captain Damage]

Beer yeast is a bacteria.

No. You are simply wrong here. Yeast - all kinds - are single celled fungi, not bacteria. They are different things. Some beers, mostly Belgian and sour styles, undergo a 2ndary fermentation with bacteria; usually lactobacillis and pediococus. But the primary fermentation is carried out by yeast. Commercially available bread yeast (in the US) is a strain of S. cerevisiae, just as most ale yeasts are. Some ales, again, mostly Belgian and sour styles, are fermented with a yeast called Brettanomyces.

 

[Skaggz]

Beer yeast is a bacteria.

No. You are simply wrong here. Yeast - all kinds - are single celled fungi, not bacteria. They are different things. Some beers, mostly Belgian and sour styles, undergo a 2ndary fermentation with bacteria; usually lactobacillis and pediococus. But the primary fermentation is carried out by yeast. Commercially available bread yeast (in the US) is a strain of S. cerevisiae, just as most ale yeasts are. Some ales, again, mostly Belgian and sour styles, are fermented with a yeast called Brettanomyces.

Owned.

Common misconception though...

 

[Revvy]

You all do realize, don't you, that although we might seperate Beer yeast from bread yeast, and turn our noses down at it.....They both are Saccharomyces cerevisiae....

The most common top cropping brewer's yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is the same species as the common baking yeast. However, baking and brewing yeasts typically belong to different strains, cultivated to favour different characteristics: baking yeast strains are more aggressive, in order to carbonate dough in the shortest amount of time possible; brewing yeast strains act slower, but tend to produce fewer off-flavours and tolerate higher alcohol concentrations (with some strains, up to 22%).

Just thought you'd like to know, in case you didn't.

 

[Dynachrome]

OK, Pumpkin Ale with bread yeast. Base grain, one specialty grain, cascade whole leaf hops. The only thing I need to pick up is grain. ...actually I bet I could make beer without leaving the house.

I have frozen or canned corn, a couple bags of multigrain bread flour with a really course grind, four small pie pumpkins, left over cascade hops from a big bag I bought and froze last year, and bread yeast for my machine. Anyone ever heard of Brandy Jack?

I'm pretty sure my dad used bread yeast for his beer back in the 60's and 70's.

 

[Kunkemonster]

I too used Fleishman's bread yeast in a JOAM mead and the fermentation was furious for 2 weeks. It tasted very good after aging for 6 months. I'm on my second mead, a blueberry and used some harvested S-05 and the fermentation is much much slower.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

You can use any kind of yeast you want. An "Artist" in Chicago made a starter from her vaginal yeast infection and then made some beer. Served the beer at her "art" exhibit and later told the audience. Just sayin' some yeasts might be better than others when making beer.

On forums though, if you state an opinion, some one will tell you your opinion is not true.

I have lots of customers that come in to make wild grape wine. When I am collecting the ingredients for them, I ask if they need some yeast. Many have said "My momma never used no yeast when she made it" You learn not to explain that they used yeast one way or the other.

I had one lady make some fruit wine and she "didn't use any yeast". She left it out on the back porch in an open container. 2 days later it was covered in fruit flies. She proceeds to put the wine in the microwave to kill the fruit flies. She called to ask why the fermentation stopped.

Forrest

 

[Meisterlowin]

You can use any kind of yeast you want. An "Artist" in Chicago made a starter from her vaginal yeast infection and then made some beer. Served the beer at her "art" exhibit and later told the audience. Just sayin' some yeasts might be better than others when making beer.

Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but I can't help wondering what it might have tasted like. Also, what would you name such a brew.....

 

[Revvy]

Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but I can't help wondering what it might have tasted like. Also, what would you name such a brew.....

There's actually been a ton of threads on it over the years.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/content?oid=23587

Methinks Forrest doth protest too much about this whole bread yeast thing, by bringing THAT up...noone's suggesting we stop buying beer yeast and just brew with Fleishmen's (or ***** yeast for that matter) just that it has been done. I'm sure the basic brewing guy's little experiments that I posted above didn't result in a drop in sale for beer yeast one bit. If anything you probably got a few more doses of us-05 of Notty sold to brewers wanting to make bread with it.

Besides most folks don't believe the beer was ever brewed, and it was just a viral art project. Noone's actually ever seen a bottle of it. Just the label and the little blurb online that I linked too. She also claims to have baked bread with it as well.

Toi Sennhauser’s breakfast table offers homemade bread, whose yeast starter includes a touch of her own vaginal yeast. Served with butter and honey, this piece is the kind of social experiment she’s been working with in recent years, in which a socially unacceptable element is part of an everyday transaction. The person approaching the work has to make certain decisions: whether or not to accept that “socially unacceptable element,” what it means to ingest it, is it really improper?
For this piece she’s replaced the bread’s vital force with the power of femininity. Women and bread are one: life-giving, nourishing, and universal. It’s an old pun, but one that’s rarely been used in such a physical way.

“Mama’s Natural Breakfast”

http://toisennhauser.com/work

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Ive got to make some statements that illicit some response. I am paying $1200 a year to be on here. Might as well have some fun.

Forrest

 

[Revvy]

Ive got to make some staements that illicit some response. I am paying $1200 a year to be on here. Might as well have some fun.

Forrest

I'm glad you brought it up. I totally forgot about OPB....

And we think Sam's Chica Recipe is rough.

(Ever thought of doing a clone of either????) :fro:

 

[midfielder5]

Reading the vagina article, it sound like a culture from our naturally occurring yeast "down there"-- it is not an infection.


-Wendy

 

[riromero]

As an aside...

My wife is an avid bread-maker and she heard about using "natural" yeast for baking. Basically you use types of fruit with a slight white powdery coating on the skins, mash them up and cast them into a jar of boiled sugar water (I use DME since I always have some around). It will ferment vigorously for several days, leaving a good 1/4" layer of yeast on the bottom. After pouring off the fruit and liquid, the yeast is mixed with a flour/water slurry to make a starter that gets stepped up sort of like a beer yeast starter. You get a different flavor of bread for each type of fruit; blueberry and plum are both fantastic. Absolutely no sourness if you use it before a week or so and add 1/4 tsp salt to the starter. Obviously you could make some interesting beer-like drink in the same manner.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Reading the vagina article, it sound like a culture from our naturally occurring yeast "down there"-- it is not an infection.


-Wendy

I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction, Wendy.

 

[midfielder5]

all good Forrest. just good natured ribbing.

 

[Token]

You know, suddenly the Chicha beer doesn't sound so bad. blech.

 

[SumnerH]

You all do realize, don't you, that although we might seperate Beer yeast from bread yeast, and turn our noses down at it.....They both are Saccharomyces cerevisiae....

...depending on the beer, of course. We might be making a hefeweizen with Torulaspora delbrueckii, or a lager with Saccharomyces pastorianus, or a big barleywine with Saccharomyces uvarum or Saccharomyces bayanus, or a funky farmhouse beer with any number of yeasts from genus Brettanomyces...

 

[MarcusKillion]

this is a tough decision to make as I have found one person with a good experience and one with bad and not much else that is but opinions on what might happen .

 

[Dynachrome]

I made Liquid Bread a few weeks ago: Liquid Bread Thread

I split a batch of IPA wort into three fermentors. I did 1-1/2 gallons of the beer with Red Star baking yeast. I couldn't tell the difference between it and the beer I made with S-04 yeast.

I got compliments on it. I took it to an Art and Architecture lecture at a local university. We had beer tasting after the lecture.

I'll still continue to buy brewing yeast, but if I ever find out I don't have any yeast, or I'm in a pinch for some other reason, I'll have no compunction about using Red Star.

It made very good beer.

 

[estricklin]

I used bread yeast as a teenager to make a mash that I would later distill. I was going to get some winemaker's yeast or something but I always had such good results with the bread yeast I just kept using it. I even drank some of the mash before and it wasn't all that bad.

 

[MarcusKillion]

Great to read some encouraging posts as I have only seen one or two others .

 

[OppamaBrendan]

My first fermented beverage was a wild blackberry wine with baking yeast. It turned out fine and the yeast didn't die off at a low abv like some people suggested it would. Its been years since then and I thought I'd try another experiment, so my last batch (a blonde) got so4 except for one liter that I fermented with bread yeast. I can say that the same wort and fermenting profile gave me better beer with the so4. The bread yeast gave me green apple beer, acetaldehyde off flavors. Fine for one beer to taste but I would not like to have 5 gallons of it.

 

[Dynachrome]

My first fermented beverage was a wild blackberry wine with baking yeast. It turned out fine and the yeast didn't die off at a low abv like some people suggested it would. Its been years since then and I thought I'd try another experiment, so my last batch (a blonde) got so4 except for one liter that I fermented with bread yeast. I can say that the same wort and fermenting profile gave me better beer with the so4. The bread yeast gave me green apple beer, acetaldehyde off flavors. Fine for one beer to taste but I would not like to have 5 gallons of it.

What brand of bread yeast please?

Did you do dry pitch, rehydrate or make a starter?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[OppamaBrendan]

I dry pitched, it was just a single liter so I didn't calculate a rate, probably it was more than needed. The brand was a Japanese company, Nisshin. I couldn't tell you much about the original Blackberry I did but it was probably Fleischmann's yeast dry pitched.

On the flipside of the coin, I am using the S04 from the Blonde in pizza dough right now, I washed the yeast a week ago and made the dough yesterday. It looks good, lots of rising even in the fridge.

 

[rsmjack]

all yeast is bacteria.... i made some goon one day back in my prime [fermented fruit juice with some dextrose] it took a week to ferment, not bad floculation in my experiance, it even got to around the 14% ABC mark!! hoevever, it did not taste too good, nor did it age well [it got ****ter] had a slight bread taste, and other flavours that i cant put my finger on.

 

[hunter_le five]

all yeast is bacteria....

Huh, This sounds familiar.....


Page 2 of this thread:

Beer yeast is a bacteria.

No. You are simply wrong here. Yeast - all kinds - are single celled fungi, not bacteria. They are different things. Some beers, mostly Belgian and sour styles, undergo a 2ndary fermentation with bacteria; usually lactobacillis and pediococus. But the primary fermentation is carried out by yeast. Commercially available bread yeast (in the US) is a strain of S. cerevisiae, just as most ale yeasts are. Some ales, again, mostly Belgian and sour styles, are fermented with a yeast called Brettanomyces.

 

[Rivenin]

i've done it before with a basic pale, came out with an extremely clean saison spice flavor.

i actually split a batch of saison between..
WLP500 - trappist
WLP670 - American Farmhouse
Redstar Platinum bread yeast.

because? because why not... i've had good luck with it before. figured what the heck .