ADVICE Please on a copper steamer

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Oblivion

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hi im new to HBT but have used it for the advice for over a year and decided to become a member today,

basically Iv made a bottle steamer and it turned out pretty good, , will it effectively sanitise my bottles ?

this was after 2 minutes and the bottles were scalding hot, all the jets seemed to be evenly pumping out steam and after 10 mins the room was full of steam and the bottles were boiling hot


thanks chris

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also does anyone know if I need to sterilise the inside of the pipes to stop any copper flavours lacing the inside of my bottles thanks chris
 
Wow! Nice work! I would think a simple cleaning of the copper would suffice. Will that unit generate enough steam to reach high temperatures inside each bottle? I like to use star san FWIW, it is two of my favorite things, cheap and easy!
 
ive measured the temperature of the bottle and it was 97oc, I had to wait 10 mins to cool down before I could touch them as they were boiling hot, and they look gleaming, just worried about the inside of the copper not being clean, was thinking about filling the pipes with vinegar and salt to clean them,
 
the steamer is 2300watts and seems to be powerful enough to do more bottles than I have made this for, if only there was a way to test how sterile the inside of the bottles are
 
the steamer is 2300watts and seems to be powerful enough to do more bottles than I have made this for, if only there was a way to test how sterile the inside of the bottles are

I forget how long, but sterilzation takes place at about 250F (125oC?) - I think auto claves are 250F plus time like 20 mins. you can do something call 'tyndalization' but it is bacically taking the surface up to boiling temps for 20 mins 3 days in a row.
 
125oC hmmm, will have to test how hot the surface of the bottles get after 15mins steaming, they are untouchable so hoping they exceed 125oC, would you suggest I still give a dose of videne antiseptic solution, just before I bottle my brew ?
 
AC brewer is correct that you are not sterilizing the bottles. However you are still effectively sanitizing them. There is potential that spores will still remain viable within the bottle. You have to remember that your beer is not sterile and there is no need to sterilize a vessel that is going to contain a non sterile media. This will be as effective if not more effective than star san in the sanitaztion department.
 
That Sounds good to me Brad, that made perfect sense, ive only been brewing 6 months so still have a lot to learn, I still just use can kits as they are so easy to brew, im just trying as best I can to keep my beer as clean as possible and keep contamination to a minimum, must say ive done over 15 batches now and only had 1 bad batch due to overcarbination ( my first batch which I think I rushed ) but luckily they have all tasted great and had perfect carbination, thanks for the advice guys been a great help,

just 1 quick ? Would I not need a squirt of the videne solution before I bottle ( was told 1.25ml to 1L mixture) now that I am steam cleaning my bottles ?
 
Wow! Nice work! I would think a simple cleaning of the copper would suffice. Will that unit generate enough steam to reach high temperatures inside each bottle? I like to use star san FWIW, it is two of my favorite things, cheap and easy!

yeah ive tried to get star san but its almost £50 over here in the uk, I may still get a bottle and give it a try
 
125oC hmmm, will have to test how hot the surface of the bottles get after 15mins steaming, they are untouchable so hoping they exceed 125oC, would you suggest I still give a dose of videne antiseptic solution, just before I bottle my brew ?

OP - you could see if something like this
http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2013/04/non-contact-ir-infrared-thermometer.html
has the temp range for you. It is also useful for checking mash temps during a brew. Although if you do extract, you don't really have a mash.

Brad is right, you are putting a non sterile material into a non sterile bottle. Biggest thing would be to make sure they are clean before steaming for sanitiation. Although a steam clean like this might help get off caked on items - just remember to steam after it is totally clean and free of all dirt.

The comerical brewers often pasturize, but that is as much about killing their own yeast after carbing as it is about controling for other bacteria. It basically comes down to beer stablity and shelf life. But that is another thread.

I'm trying to find temp/times for a heat sanatizing. 20 mins in boiling (100oC) water is the standard for sanatizing, but you aren't using boiling water, you are using steam, which is atleast 100oC and possibly higher.

Now Pasturization takes place at several temps, but the highest is about 170oF(77oC) and is fairly short like 5 mins. or shorter. BUT this kills specific bacteria that are of a concern in the product, and may not kill everything that can eat the malt and cause problems with the flavor.

As to the videne, that ratio sounds right, but I'm not sure it will help. With the higher temp, you might break the iodine faster and cause it to not be sanatizing. The same thought could be applied to a star san mixture (acid based)
 
Another thing. In the Joy of homebrewing or the Complete homebrewer companion Charlee P describes sanatizing bottles, and then capping them with aluminum foil and using them bottling a week later - ie if you put an immeidate cover, even on that won't be air tight, you will prevent the fall in of bacteria and the bottle will stay sanatized. Just cleaning a bottle should stop growth - if you remove the food (cleaning and dirt removal) there won't be anything for the bacteria to eat, so the count won't change, - this is why we can clean bottles and leave them for months and not find mold on them.

so once you sanatize, you could store the bottles inverted in the box or whatever and that should work. Also you can use bleach for sanatiztion.
 
Thanx acbrewer that is great advice, just what I was looking for, yeah as soon as I pour my beer I rinse the bottle completely under the tap and then into a rhino bucket to store, they are completely clean and no sed or residue in the bottle,

on bottling day I plan to use my copper steamer for 20 mins on 13 bottles and so on till I have 40 bottles ready to use, and as soon as the bottles have cooled I will fill them straight away,

good tip about the foil, i'll use it while they cool,

I was told that after sanitizing the bottles with my steamer if I squirt the videne in the bottle then fill with beer, just not sure if theres much point in that

thanx for the help :))))
 
Unless the steam is under significant pressure (pressure cooker), the steam coming off will never be hotter than boiling temp. As soon as a water molecule exceeds boiling temp, it turns to a gas and off it goes.

That said and similar to what Brad2287 said, you have an excellent sanitizer there and that's all you need. The downside is that you can't do a full batch there and it takes time to cool them. You could sanitize a separate rack and move them over to start another round on the steam.

Can you post some more pics of your setup?
 
ive just got basic setup at the moment with just doing extract cans,

3 x 5 gallon FV
1 x 5 Gallon Pressure barrel ( which I use a bottling barrel)
1 x little bottler
1 x hydrometer
1 x digital thermometer
capper
bottle of videne antibacterial solution

and now a steamer to sanitise bottles

I ferment the brew for upto 2 weeks, then syphon into my barrel for a few days,

then on bottleing day I plan to steam 13 bottles for 20 mins, remove them while hot with oven gloves onto the table top and cap with foil
while they cool I'll steam another 13 bottles and do the same process

once I have enough bottles around 40 usually does, ill just prime bottles and fill straight from the barrel with my little bottler

I try to keep everything as simple as possible then ave less chance off messing up
 
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