Reverse Flow MT ?

[rudylyon57]

Does anyone know if a reverse flow mash circulation has been attempted? What I'm referring to is circulating fluid in an upward direction while gravity is pulling grain downward, or the opposite direction. Seems to me this would do a better job of floating the grain bed until it's time to lauter and flow would be reversed. The benefits would be the capacity for higher circulation flows with no chance for getting stuck while doing so. Might require a false top in addition to a false bottom !

 

[aamcle]

Yup it's a Braumiester but they can get stuck mashes just like any other system.


aamcle

 

[BrunDog]

I am actually building one to test as we speak! Sit tight for results...

 

[rudylyon57]

I am actually building one to test as we speak! Sit tight for results...

Excellent. What does your concept involve?

 

[BrewKaiser]

I am actually building one to test as we speak! Sit tight for results...

If anyone can figure it out it's you! Your BruControl automation will certainly make it easier monitor flows and then switch valves and reverse flows, but for non-automated home brewers I think the added effort and expense will likely not be worth it.

Gravity does an excellent job of pulling liquid equally down the grain bed. Reversing the flow and "pushing" it up may lead to channeling unless you have a perforated manifold on the bottom that equally distributes the returning wort.

The "False top" will have to be set low enough to not lose prime but also filter out grains. May have to resort to a self priming pump as I don't know if the chugger type pump has enough "pull" to suck off the top of the grain bed.

Another idea, although completely more complex to implement, would be laying the MLT on it's side and rotating during the mash like a cement mixer.

Damn! Now you've set my brain back in to tinker mode....

I'm curious what your results will show...

 

[BrunDog]

Good points! All addressed. Soon... very soon. Need to run another test or two then will share!

 

[rudylyon57]

If anyone can figure it out it's you! Your BruControl automation will certainly make it easier monitor flows and then switch valves and reverse flows, but for non-automated home brewers I think the added effort and expense will likely not be worth it.

Gravity does an excellent job of pulling liquid equally down the grain bed. Reversing the flow and "pushing" it up may lead to channeling unless you have a perforated manifold on the bottom that equally distributes the returning wort.

The "False top" will have to be set low enough to not lose prime but also filter out grains. May have to resort to a self priming pump as I don't know if the chugger type pump has enough "pull" to suck off the top of the grain bed.

Another idea, although completely more complex to implement, would be laying the MLT on it's side and rotating during the mash like a cement mixer.

Damn! Now you've set my brain back in to tinker mode....

I'm curious what your results will show...

Relative to drawing wort over the MT edge, once the pump is primed and the inlet is below wort level & draw-down, it should be okay. Net gravity head will still be positive provided pump inlet is below wort level. Will be a PIA if prime is lost though.

My first attempt will be to re-purpose a stainless mesh hop spider as a sump to draw wort from. It will be submerged to the top of grain bed, at least as I imagine it.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Relative to drawing wort over the MT edge, once the pump is primed and the inlet is below wort level & draw-down, it should be okay. Net gravity head will still be positive provided pump inlet is below wort level.

Head pressure from a full tun is considerably more than from a hose. Initially, these pumps may draw down more liquid than gravity alone can provide so careful flow maintenance will be critical to maintain equilibrium. It will be very easy for these to suck in air and now you have lost prime and are introducing o2 to your entire grain bed (if concerned about LODO)


Just curious what issues you expect Reverse Flow will overcome?

Higher Efficiency
More consistent temp throughout mash

Sorry if this reads a contrarian. I actually am very interested in this, I just see it as a potential cluster F on a few levels.

Can't wait to see what @BrunDog has cooked up

 

[rudylyon57]

Head pressure from a full tun is considerably more than from a hose. Initially, these pumps may draw down more liquid than gravity alone can provide so careful flow maintenance will be critical to maintain equilibrium. It will be very easy for these to suck in air and now you have lost prime and are introducing o2 to your entire grain bed (if concerned about LODO)


Just curious what issues you expect Reverse Flow will overcome?

Higher Efficiency
More consistent temp throughout mash

Sorry if this reads a contrarian. I actually am very interested in this, I just see it as a potential cluster F on a few levels.

Can't wait to see what @BrunDog has cooked up

No worries. I'm not picking up a contrarian position as challenging questions & debate provoke more thought.

There is something about a grain bed that is seemingly planted to a false bottom that doesn't sit right with me. Most industrial fluid bed systems have solid matter "floating" in the fluid that is passing across it. I would imagine that a free-floating kernel of grain has a better chance of having its sugars dissolved into solution than does one that is stuck in position.

Maybe some flaws in my brewing process such as to fine a crush (.030-.035 roller gap), too much circulation flow, etc., have created this perception of mine. Perhaps those are the areas of the process that I should tinker with?