Man, I love Apfelwein

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Here is a one last question of mine, before I head home and try and assess the sulphur smell of the beer.

At this point (6 days in), if I add copper and "shake the hell out of it", do I have to worry about oxidation? Is there enough CO2 in there that I dont have to worry about it?

Any idea of how much yeast nutrient to add? Im assuming to follow direction on the package, but I usually just use a tiny pinch in yeast starters.

Im thinking adding the pennies. Pretty sure Ill have a bunch of them at home. Can I throw them in a sterilized hop bag then shake?
 
Hahaha. Well, that was fun.

Before dumping a handful of pennies into my carboy, I decided "Why dont I just add some of the yeast nutrient, and go from there. The sulphur smell was pretty much gone after 1 day (according to the wife), and I figured a little yeast nutrient wouldnt hurt.

So, I weighed out 4 grams of nutrient (directions state 1 gram per gallon of must). Although I have 6 gallons, I didnt think I needed that much. Its already going rather well according to the airlock, so I didnt want to add too much.

I slowly added the nutrient, and began to shake. Whoa!!!! WTF!! I instantly had a geyser of sugary aplle juice spewing from the airlock. I quickly grabbed a towel and stuck it over it. Then removed the airlock and let it spew foam all over the place.

Not sure what it was in he nutrient (Fermaid-K) that made it do this, but wow! I didnt really lose much liquid, but it foamed pretty good for a minute or two. After it settled, I refilled and replaced the airlock, cleaned the carboy and let it sit.

i dont think I am going to copper route. The liquid that came out smells great, no sulphur smell at all. Hopefully the Fermaid prevents any more from forming and it continues along without getting infected from the geyser of foam haha. What a morning. All this on 3 hours sleep. I need a nap
 
Well, I made it to around the 2500th +post on this thread, and figured everything that could have been discussed about this beverage had been said. I brewed my 1st batch on March 29th as close as I could to Ed’s recipe. I couldn’t get Montrachet yeast, the closest substitute suggested at my LHBS was Lalvin K1-V116. It worked perfectly, and is still bubbling. True to post #1, I started a 2nd batch April 7, but because all my fermenters have been used for hoppy beer, I bought a new fermenting bucket, which is different from my other 3 fermenting buckets. It is taller, and skinnier. The lid came with a small hole pre-drilled, but there was no rubber seal ring around the rim of the lid. IT was VERY hard for me to force the lid onto this bucket (test fit) and even harder for me to pull it off. I figured it must be sealing properly (dummy). I put the recipe together (same as the 1st batch, again using Lalvin K1-V116) and saw airlock movement at about 24 hours. It never took off like the earlier batch. Today I noticed the sulphur smell, and the airlock is not really moving. It must be a bad seal? I must say, it is irritating.

Both the carboy and the skinny bucket are at constant 70F

I have an empty 10 gallon demijohn. Am I ok to combine these 2 batches in it? I am going to repurpose the skinny fermenting bucket as a bottling bucket perhaps. Should I just get a better bottle (or another carboy) and transfer the 2nd batch to it? If I clean out one of my beer fermenters and can’t smell residual hop smells, could I transfer it to one of those? If the apfelwein turns out as good as I think it will, maybe I’ll just make a 3rd monster batch in the demijohn (actually, I think it is 54L, which is 14 Gallons!)

Any Canadians out there find an online seller of Montrachet that doesn’t charge $38 to ship a $0.79 package of yeast? Oh, the juice I used (as tree top is not available here) was Rougemont. 100% juice with ascorbic acid... It is on discount at Costco right now. 6x2L bottles for around $11. Sorry for the massive post, but I wanted to be thorough. Cheers.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
Hahaha. Well, that was fun.

Before dumping a handful of pennies into my carboy, I decided "Why dont I just add some of the yeast nutrient, and go from there. The sulphur smell was pretty much gone after 1 day (according to the wife), and I figured a little yeast nutrient wouldnt hurt.

So, I weighed out 4 grams of nutrient (directions state 1 gram per gallon of must). Although I have 6 gallons, I didnt think I needed that much. Its already going rather well according to the airlock, so I didnt want to add too much.

I slowly added the nutrient, and began to shake. Whoa!!!! WTF!! I instantly had a geyser of sugary aplle juice spewing from the airlock. I quickly grabbed a towel and stuck it over it. Then removed the airlock and let it spew foam all over the place.

Not sure what it was in he nutrient (Fermaid-K) that made it do this, but wow! I didnt really lose much liquid, but it foamed pretty good for a minute or two. After it settled, I refilled and replaced the airlock, cleaned the carboy and let it sit.

i dont think I am going to copper route. The liquid that came out smells great, no sulphur smell at all. Hopefully the Fermaid prevents any more from forming and it continues along without getting infected from the geyser of foam haha. What a morning. All this on 3 hours sleep. I need a nap
Click to expand...
Erm.. I did mention trying not to cause a foam over right? What happened is that the powder provided a lot more nucleation sites for bubbles to form then the sides of the carboy usually would. That's the same reason beer goes flat faster in a dirty glass then it does in a clean one. That made it much easier for the dissolved co2 to come out of solution. That will happen no matter what powder you add to your fermentor.

If your sulfur smells dropped way down after a day or so, then you probably just had a really vigorous fermentation going. If you had a real nutrient deficiency issue the smell would not have dissipated that fast, or at all. No need to muck about with the copper then.

My yeast nutrient specifies 1 tsp / gallon. I've found that is adequate, in the absence of other nutrient sources, up to about 7% ABV. For higher ABV targets, I increase the nutrient additions accordingly. By absence of other nutrients, I'm talking about something like mead or sugar water solution. With something like this that includes a lot of juice, I would have probably only used 1 tsp in the whole batch.
 
Walter_Whites_Batch said:
Well, I made it to around the 2500th +post on this thread, and figured everything that could have been discussed about this beverage had been said. I brewed my 1st batch on March 29th as close as I could to Ed’s recipe. I couldn’t get Montrachet yeast, the closest substitute suggested at my LHBS was Lalvin K1-V116. It worked perfectly, and is still bubbling. True to post #1, I started a 2nd batch April 7, but because all my fermenters have been used for hoppy beer, I bought a new fermenting bucket, which is different from my other 3 fermenting buckets. It is taller, and skinnier. The lid came with a small hole pre-drilled, but there was no rubber seal ring around the rim of the lid. IT was VERY hard for me to force the lid onto this bucket (test fit) and even harder for me to pull it off. I figured it must be sealing properly (dummy). I put the recipe together (same as the 1st batch, again using Lalvin K1-V116) and saw airlock movement at about 24 hours. It never took off like the earlier batch. Today I noticed the sulphur smell, and the airlock is not really moving. It must be a bad seal? I must say, it is irritating.

Both the carboy and the skinny bucket are at constant 70F

I have an empty 10 gallon demijohn. Am I ok to combine these 2 batches in it? I am going to repurpose the skinny fermenting bucket as a bottling bucket perhaps. Should I just get a better bottle (or another carboy) and transfer the 2nd batch to it? If I clean out one of my beer fermenters and can’t smell residual hop smells, could I transfer it to one of those? If the apfelwein turns out as good as I think it will, maybe I’ll just make a 3rd monster batch in the demijohn (actually, I think it is 54L, which is 14 Gallons!)

Any Canadians out there find an online seller of Montrachet that doesn’t charge $38 to ship a $0.79 package of yeast? Oh, the juice I used (as tree top is not available here) was Rougemont. 100% juice with ascorbic acid... It is on discount at Costco right now. 6x2L bottles for around $11. Sorry for the massive post, but I wanted to be thorough. Cheers.
Click to expand...

I went ahead and racked batch #2 to my cleanest, sanitized fermenting bucket, I've never moved actively fermenting anything before, I tried to do it as calmly as possible. It was definitely a bad lid on the other pail. It is vigorously bubbling away alongside batch #1 now. I hated to do it, and I probably increased the danger of contamination. But this way, I know it is sealed properly. Now, I'm going to fill that mother demijohn.
 
Leadgolem said:
Erm.. I did mention trying not to cause a foam over right? What happened is that the powder provided a lot more nucleation sites for bubbles to form then the sides of the carboy usually would. That's the same reason beer goes flat faster in a dirty glass then it does in a clean one. That made it much easier for the dissolved co2 to come out of solution. That will happen no matter what powder you add to your fermentor.

If your sulfur smells dropped way down after a day or so, then you probably just had a really vigorous fermentation going. If you had a real nutrient deficiency issue the smell would not have dissipated that fast, or at all. No need to muck about with the copper then.

My yeast nutrient specifies 1 tsp / gallon. I've found that is adequate, in the absence of other nutrient sources, up to about 7% ABV. For higher ABV targets, I increase the nutrient additions accordingly. By absence of other nutrients, I'm talking about something like mead or sugar water solution. With something like this that includes a lot of juice, I would have probably only used 1 tsp in the whole batch.
Click to expand...

I fully understood why this happened, but it was pretty funny when it did. Im not really worried about contamination as nothing could really make it IN there when all the foam was coming OUT.

And to be honest, I put the nutrient in there, slowly, and as the last of it went in, I barely even touched the carboy when the foaming started. Not even a swirl. Not sure how I could have avoided it. It was a learning process, as this whole thing is.
 
Just started my first batch of this stuff last night. I put 6 gallons into a plastic bucket. After a month or so I was planning on bottling some with priming sugar and putting the rest back in the 1 gallon apple juice containers without priming sugar so I can see whether I like it better carbonated or not. Anybody see any issues with this? I was thinking of giving it 1 month for my first batch. Then after I break it out back into the individual gallon jugs I can try to age some of them and drink the rest.
 
So I made 2.5 gallons of this necter from the heavens and finally ran out. Did not heed the advice to start a second right away!

So the next time I make this tasty beverage I will make 5 gallons. Question is can I use regular sugar instead of dextrose?
 
Leadgolem said:
Erm.. I did mention trying not to cause a foam over right? What happened is that the powder provided a lot more nucleation sites for bubbles to form then the sides of the carboy usually would. That's the same reason beer goes flat faster in a dirty glass then it does in a clean one. That made it much easier for the dissolved co2 to come out of solution. That will happen no matter what powder you add to your fermentor.

If your sulfur smells dropped way down after a day or so, then you probably just had a really vigorous fermentation going. If you had a real nutrient deficiency issue the smell would not have dissipated that fast, or at all. No need to muck about with the copper then.

My yeast nutrient specifies 1 tsp / gallon. I've found that is adequate, in the absence of other nutrient sources, up to about 7% ABV. For higher ABV targets, I increase the nutrient additions accordingly. By absence of other nutrients, I'm talking about something like mead or sugar water solution. With something like this that includes a lot of juice, I would have probably only used 1 tsp in the whole batch.
Click to expand...
aAAAA&AAap pp (iiiyttreww qq q a
 
DerrangedPOJO said:
aAAAA&AAap pp (iiiyttreww qq q a
Click to expand...
I punched that into a search engine and got links for anti-psychotics...

SFGiantsFan925 said:
I fully understood why this happened, but it was pretty funny when it did. Im not really worried about contamination as nothing could really make it IN there when all the foam was coming OUT.

And to be honest, I put the nutrient in there, slowly, and as the last of it went in, I barely even touched the carboy when the foaming started. Not even a swirl. Not sure how I could have avoided it. It was a learning process, as this whole thing is.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry it didn't occur to me earlier. The only way I know of to avoid this is to degass first. Agitate the liquid so the dissolved h2s and co2 come out of solution. Then when you add the powder the number of new bubbles you get is fairly minimal.

You don't need to worry much about oxidation when you do this as you are generally shaking the carboy with a cap in it. The headspace in the carboy is already filled with co2, so no oxygen to mix with the liquid.

If you really do have an h2s issue in the future you need to really degass. So shake, let the bubbles settle, release pressure. Do that over and over until when you pull the bung out of the carboy no pressure is released.
 
Today is 4 weeks in and just had a reading of 1.008. Its still has a few tiny bubbled rising up. I want to rack to a secondary to eventually backsweeten. Should i wait til its clear to rack?
 
mattsilf said:
Today is 4 weeks in and just had a reading of 1.008. Its still has a few tiny bubbled rising up. I want to rack to a secondary to eventually backsweeten. Should i wait til its clear to rack?
Click to expand...
No harm either way, rack if you need the space. You can even bottle while it's still murky, you will just end up with a little sediment in the bottle.
 
Leadgolem said:
No harm either way, rack if you need the space. You can even bottle while it's still murky, you will just end up with a little sediment in the bottle.
Click to expand...

Ok good to hear, thank you. I need the carboy its in but i didnt want to mess anything up by racking before its clear. Thanks
 
This has most likely been answered in this thread, but I was hoping for a quick answer: Could I do this using Danstar Noti ale yeast? Id like to put this together this weekend, and cannot get the yeast thats recommended. Thank you!
 
I don't think the alcohol tolerance is as high on the Nottingham. This works out to about 10%.

There's lots of different yeast used in the thread other than Montrachet, but you would want one of the higher-alco mead/wine/champ yeasts.
 
Actually Danstar's product sheet says it works on higher gravity brews and has a higher alco tolerance. Doesn't say the number. Either way, it will probably make you something drinkable.
 
Has anyone else had issues with their beer lines tasting like Apfelwein after switching out a keg? I am giving my lines a long oxyclean soak to try and remove it. I've never had this with beer but I wonder if it is because the Apfelwein keg was on tap for 6+ months
 
Hmmm, I want to bulk age a couple of months. I was planning on racking off the yeast first, but this is my first apfelwein and I'm a rookie.

Should I just leave it on the yeast and put it in the basement?
 
OK I got my first batch going tonight. I only had 1.875 lbs of dextrose, but I am fermenting in a 6 gallon and got all 5 total gallons of juice in. I am out of Montrachet but the lhbs had White Labs Sweat Mead WLP720 so in it went right at 70 F. Currently it is sitting next to my orange wine which is progressing quite nicely. I added 1 tsp of DAP just because I always stress about getting the fermentation going. Starting SPG was 1.060 which seems right on track given the slightly lower starting amount of dextrose. REALLY looking forward to sitting down with the Mrs and trying this when it is ready!

541704_4778827870144_531800577_n.jpg
 
i just found a 2 year old quart bottle of it ( very well sealed ) earlier tonight, but i'd already had a few brews, so i left it alone. it's crystal clear, and i can read newspaper through it. gonna drink it tomorrow
 
Took a gravity reading and a small sample of our first batch of Apfelwein yesterday! Gravity at 1.000 after about 7 weeks fermenting. Planning on leaving it in primary for a total of 3 months then bottling. Sample tastes surprisingly good! Was expecting it to be a bit more harsh at this early stage but its quite drinkable even now! Good stuff!



image-2220016967.jpg
 
So, I just mixed this up earlier today. Question: I see most of the sugar has fallen to the bottom, even though I mixed it up very well in a half full bottle, then poured in. Will this be an issue, and do I need to shake it up? My carboy is quite full, so actually shaking could prove to be a bad idea.

I am thinking the yeast will find the sugar on the bottom and its not a problem that its not diluted into the actual juice?
 
arborman said:
So, I just mixed this up earlier today. Question: I see most of the sugar has fallen to the bottom, even though I mixed it up very well in a half full bottle, then poured in. Will this be an issue, and do I need to shake it up? My carboy is quite full, so actually shaking could prove to be a bad idea.

I am thinking the yeast will find the sugar on the bottom and its not a problem that its not diluted into the actual juice?
Click to expand...

the yeasties will find it there
 
If I bottle this into used 1gal wine jugs and use the used screw tops do you think it would be a problem? What if I added some sugar to carb it up? Would they hold the pressure ?
 
I doubt the screwtops for the wine jugs would hold the pressure. A soda bottle and cap will though. Make sure it ferments dry, and use a priming sugar calculator. Like Rika said, it will go cloudy for a bit during the refermentation.
 
Started my first batch on Saturday night. Used 2lbs of sucrose and pitched 2 packs of champagne yeast. Had my nutrients standing by. Less than 24 hours later, it took off like a shot and smells like cinnamon.
 
I put together my 3rd batch of this last night following Ed's recipe exactly. The Montrachet finally arrived in the mail, and I put 3 packages of it, 6lbs dextrose and 15 Gallons of pure %100 apple juice from Costco into my 54 litre demijohn. This brings my total made since March 29, 2013 to a whopping 100 litres, except the 1st 2 batches were made using Lalvin yeast. I've never tasted a drop of apfelwein before, so I 've placed a lot of faith in what surely must be the most popular recipe on this site.
 
My most recent batch (2nd one) was a disaster at bottling time. It was completely turned :(.

I let it sit in the primary for about 5 1/2 months before noticing that the airlock was drying up. Not completely dried up yet though. Filling it up again took a backburner to other things I was doing that day and a couple days later, noticed the airlock did not have enough liquid in it to prevent o2 from getting inside. O2 could've been exposed for a little less than half a day when I filled it up again.

Since I was bottling it in the coming weekend I didn't campden it or anything. In the bottling bucket I normally dissolve my campden with a little water. Did that and my normal bottling routine and tasted a sample. Very watery apple taste with a bitter aftertaste. Yuck! I could tell it was turning. I ended up with 23 bottles of it. Tried 1 a week later and it was even worse...

So, there ya have it. I ruined a 5 gallon batch in less than half a day after 5 1/2 months. Keep an eye on your airlocks folks, don't make my mistake...

Going for my 3rd batch of it tonight. Won't make the same mistake twice :).
 

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