I recently went from extract to partial grain and in the process have begun rehydrating the dry yeast per the instructions on the packet. I'm only giving it a couple of hours before pitching. Rookie mistake? Better to stick to dry unless I'm going to make a starter farther in advance? If so, how far? Thanks.
Newbie Yeast Rehydration Question
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hector
Well-Known Member
Do you just leave it in water for couple of hours ?!!
If so , you're facing lots of dead yeast cells at the end .
It's recommended to pitch the yeast slurry not later than half an hour after re-hydrating if you are
using just water .
Hector
If so , you're facing lots of dead yeast cells at the end .
It's recommended to pitch the yeast slurry not later than half an hour after re-hydrating if you are
using just water .
Hector
When I am about ready to start the wort boil, I boil one cup of my yeast water in the microwave in a Pyrex cup down to about 1/2 cup. That way, it can be cooling (covered with sanitized foil) while I brew.
I add the dry yeast to the cooled 95*F water right after I remove my chiller from the kettle and cover it. Stir after 15 min. By then, the kettle trub has settled to the bottom. Adjust the yeast temp by adding small amounts of wort, stirring and letting sit a few minutes. When you're within 10 degrees, pitch.
I add the dry yeast to the cooled 95*F water right after I remove my chiller from the kettle and cover it. Stir after 15 min. By then, the kettle trub has settled to the bottom. Adjust the yeast temp by adding small amounts of wort, stirring and letting sit a few minutes. When you're within 10 degrees, pitch.
davekippen
Well-Known Member
95 degrees? Yikes. Way too hot.
Here's how I do it: When I start cooling my wort (30 mins prior to pitching, ish) Sanitize a container, pour in some room temp distilled water. Pour the yeast in. Let some of it settle for 15 mins. Swirl it around. Just before pitching, swirl around again and dump her in.
Works great for me! I think boiling and cooling is a waste of time IMO.
I have a buddy who actually rehydrates his dry yeast on a stir plate for about an hour before pitching! I thought it was funny but it works for him.
Here's how I do it: When I start cooling my wort (30 mins prior to pitching, ish) Sanitize a container, pour in some room temp distilled water. Pour the yeast in. Let some of it settle for 15 mins. Swirl it around. Just before pitching, swirl around again and dump her in.
Works great for me! I think boiling and cooling is a waste of time IMO.
I have a buddy who actually rehydrates his dry yeast on a stir plate for about an hour before pitching! I thought it was funny but it works for him.
Yes, just water. So less time spent sitting is better it sounds like? Pitched about 18 hours ago and just waiting for signs of life at this point. Any harm in giving it a stir or best to leave it be and see what happens?
davekippen
Well-Known Member
Give it at least 24 hours, more like 48 before I would even think something is off.
95 is about where you want it. Rehydrating with room temp water causes exactly what you're trying to avoid by rehydrating (cell death). IIRC, rehydrating with 60F water will kill about 50% of the cells, where with water at 100F, 100% of the cells will stay viable.
Rehydration with distilled water can also result in a significant amount of dead cells, which is something I learned fairly recently as I always just used store bought RO water. The water should have a fair amount of hardness to it.
As for the original question, there's no huge issue with waiting a few hours after rehydration. The cells burn through the nutrients that the dry yeast is packaged with, but it's not really damaging.
Good God I'm not sure I've seen so much misinformation in one place in a long time. biestie is close but 95 is borderline too cold. 104 is the target. This is not nice, plump, thriving liquid yeast, it's yeast that is in a coma and you need to treat it right to wake it up. Here's some excellent instructions all in one place from the people who should know:
http://www.scottlab.com/uploads/documents/downloads/59/YeastRehydration_Lallemand.pdf
The quantities given are huge, but they give the ratios. This one is more wordy and explains "why". It is geared towards home winemaking but applies to us as well:
http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wineyeastrehydration09.pdf
I have and use GoFerm because I make meads and wines as well. If you are a beer maker, use dry yeast, and have never tried GoGerm you should try it once. The results are spectacular. I have made beer without and beer with GoFerm, and if I have it here I will use it. I probably will not freak if I run out but it's good stuff.
For the completely ADD-addled person with no patience or Go-Ferm: Rehydrate with tap water, 104 degrees F. Do not stir, let rest for ~ 20 minutes then pitch.
ETA: I failed to answer the OP. You are probably fine, but you are experiencing a slight delay because the yeast is not as happy as it could be. Wait it out and in the meantime read that second link. I suspect your beer will be fine but if you do that batch again and follow proper procedure you will see the difference.
http://www.scottlab.com/uploads/documents/downloads/59/YeastRehydration_Lallemand.pdf
The quantities given are huge, but they give the ratios. This one is more wordy and explains "why". It is geared towards home winemaking but applies to us as well:
http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wineyeastrehydration09.pdf
I have and use GoFerm because I make meads and wines as well. If you are a beer maker, use dry yeast, and have never tried GoGerm you should try it once. The results are spectacular. I have made beer without and beer with GoFerm, and if I have it here I will use it. I probably will not freak if I run out but it's good stuff.
For the completely ADD-addled person with no patience or Go-Ferm: Rehydrate with tap water, 104 degrees F. Do not stir, let rest for ~ 20 minutes then pitch.
ETA: I failed to answer the OP. You are probably fine, but you are experiencing a slight delay because the yeast is not as happy as it could be. Wait it out and in the meantime read that second link. I suspect your beer will be fine but if you do that batch again and follow proper procedure you will see the difference.
Lbussy - I'm curious what your final pitching temperature is if you add at 104 and wait 20 minutes without doing anything. I'd be concerned about the difference in temp between the yeast and the wort that you're pitching to.
I agree that there's a lot of misinformation out there on this subject. I tried google again and found where I got the info stuck in my brain on the fact that DI water is bad. Found it.
http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/
I post that to point out that according to Dr. Cone (you can look up his credentials) states:
The reason I bring that up is because fermentis actually recommends rehydrating US-05 in the 80s. Not trying to get into an argument, but 104F may be the target for lellemand yeasts, it may not be the end all be all.
And also on my question to you about the temp of the yeast your pitching into the wort after 20 minutes:
Last, I think there's been taste tests that suggest no one can really tell the difference between direct pitching of dry yeast and rehydrating, so I'm not trying to act as if this will be the difference between good and bad beer.
I agree that there's a lot of misinformation out there on this subject. I tried google again and found where I got the info stuck in my brain on the fact that DI water is bad. Found it.
http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/
I post that to point out that according to Dr. Cone (you can look up his credentials) states:
The reason I bring that up is because fermentis actually recommends rehydrating US-05 in the 80s. Not trying to get into an argument, but 104F may be the target for lellemand yeasts, it may not be the end all be all.
And also on my question to you about the temp of the yeast your pitching into the wort after 20 minutes:
Last, I think there's been taste tests that suggest no one can really tell the difference between direct pitching of dry yeast and rehydrating, so I'm not trying to act as if this will be the difference between good and bad beer.
LBussy said:
Totally agree!
Just to put this out there, most dry yeast manufacturers put their own rehydrating instructions either on the packet (like Danstar) or in the instructions found online for their professional-sized pitch. The temp can change for each mfg (Danstar specifies 92F). Just check online to be sure you're rehydrating at the temp that yeast is supposed be at.
davekippen
Well-Known Member
I guess like everything else in Homebrew, we will have to agree that there is no best way to skin a cat. Too many variables, different strains, different instructions. My experience has been with US 04 and 05 and their website says:
"Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°c ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel."
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
Which is basically what I said in my earlier post.
"Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°c ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel."
http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
Which is basically what I said in my earlier post.
As you point out it is desirable to keep the temp swing < 18 degrees (or lower in some texts) so the yeast gradually cools. I introduce an equal quantity of must or wort over the following 5 minutes to help get the yeast eating and to further lower the temp. This is described in those texts I posted as well.
I agree there, and the reference I posted says the same thing. When making beer I generally sanitize tap water in the microwave which I would guess gets rid of chloramines as well. When making wine I rarely go to that trouble, using my hot water out of the tap at 110 to mix in the GoFerm which generally leaves me at 104-ish.
I've read that, and to be brutally honest I wonder if they are correct, or if they are carrying over experience with live, vital yeasts into the dry area? How could dry yeast (of the same strain in a lot of cases) from one manufacturer rehydrate optimally at one temp, then from another rehydrate at a different temp? I've seen the micrographs (and I can't find them now of course) supporting the warmer temps but never seen the "science" behind the cooler temps. So, again being honest, I wonder if their science is correct because the rest of the world (who has been using dry yeast for quite a bit longer) thinks differently. Does Fermentis actually perform the processing, or do they contract it from other places? If it's the latter then there's little reason to suspect their yeast would miraculously behave differently. I do have a suspicion that it's a marketing decision - making your yeast easier to use (close enough is good enough?) makes it a contender in the market. Maybe we have a biologist here who can test for us someday.
If the beer is clean then the beer will be clean at the end. However, I have seen a drastic difference in fermentation characteristics between the two methods. Related to that but not within the same samples I have easily tasted the difference in a yeast-forward ale style when pitched properly, and under-pitched (in my mind this would emulate faulty rehydration). So while I am joining two separate experiments, there's a reasonable hypothesis there that dry yeast which is not rehydrated (which I have proven to myself ferments more sluggishly than properly hydrated yeast) will have a difference in the finished product. I agree that is not a scientific test, but it seems reasonable based on the other bodies of evidence available.
And lastly ... there is just a HUGE difference in "properly" rehydrated yeast's performance vs the "pitch and go". This post started because of concerns the OP had which are arguably tied to his treatment of the yeast. Since we all feel MUCH better when we see bubbling airliocks first thing in the morning after brewing, why not go with a method which produces that? Granted that's a "feel good" explanation but if we were not driven by what feels good we would not be making ethanol.
hector
Well-Known Member
If it's an Ale batch , 18 hours with re-hydrated dry yeast is rather long .
The main Advantage of adding re-hydrated yeast is shorter Lag Time.
As I said , you are left with lots of dead yeast cells due to long re-hydrating in just water .
It should show you some signs within 6-12 hours after pitching .
If I were you , I would sprinkle some dry yeast on top of the wort , if its temperature is above 20 C .
Hector
It is a (relatively) long time but chances are it will take off. If he does add more yeast however there's nothing wrong with, and a lot right with, rehydrating it properly beforehand. It adds 25 minutes to the process.
:rockin:And apologies for what looks like a bunch of monkeys fornicating with footballs. As mentioned there are a lot of opinions. I think it would be okay to say that for those of us with the opinion that you should rehydrate, 20 mins is about the sweet spot.
I encourage you to take notes, try again picking one of the methods, and compare. I think you will begin to see the benefits (of both notes and proper rehydration).
I did some more searching and found the following:
From: Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff.
Enjoy your beer!
hector
Well-Known Member
Nevertheless , I would pitch some more yeast .
The yeasties don't seem to be quite healthy and happy . I had once a batch which took 24 hours to show fermentation . It produced off-flavors because the yeasties were unhealthy .
Hector
hector
Well-Known Member
We are not expressing Opinions .
We are sharing Experiences and Knowledge .
At least that's what I've been doing since I joined this Forum .
Hector
And that's semantics.
Your experience and knowledge is what causes you to give your opinion that he should pitch more yeast, right? (not saying I'm not agreeing, just being fair).
RIC0
Well-Known Member
I use 1 cup of 100+ degree filtered tap water in a sanitized glass, pitch the yeast less than an hour before it goes into the wort. Basically rehydrate when i pull the wort off the heat. I then pitch the yeast when it an the wort are cooled and are within 10 degrees of each other an have great success usually within 12 hours its fartin thru the airlock.
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