I need an engineer!

[RoughandReadyRanch]

Ok so here is the situation. I have two strings of hops going in the ground this weekend. The plan was to use reclaimed 21' 2.5" well pipe. I am going to sink it straight down 4 feet leaving me a 17' tall poll. I was planning on cementing them in as well. I was going to use heavy aircraft cable to support the massive weight. Looking at 80' length with 3 foot spacing and a total of 16 rhizomes. Here is the problem. I only got my hands on a select number of pipes due to someone beating me to the punch and now I have to basically rune 80' with 3 pipes. I planned to cut grooves in the tops of the pipes so the cable would rest in them and then run the cable down to a 6800lb breaking point anchor on each end. Can this be done or am I living a dream that will end in huge sagging and a ton of hops on the ground? If this can't be done does anyone have a suggested max length? I am thinking I just go balls out this time around and the way I have my setup I can pull the rhizome at 20' mark next when every I get more polls and just place them in for support. Thanks in advance.

 

[GVH_Dan]

R&RR: Something in your description isn't quite adding up for me.

16 rhizomes planted 3' apart = 48 feet total

Where does the 80 feet come into play? Let's just go with that...

3 poles/pipes for 80 feet, which means 40 feet between pipes...at 3' per plant, 13 plants per section or 26 total.

Assume at full growth, 30 lb per plant dead weight, may 2 to 3 times that with the wind blowing. So your 6800 lb breaking point anchor should be fine. I would use 3/8" cable across the top, maybe 1/4". I haven't reviewed those calculations in awhile.

A couple of hints, make sure the metal poles are painted, especially the part that is going into the ground. Otherwise, ground moisture and moisture in the cement will rot them away.

I would also be careful of just cutting a groove. Those wires are going to move as the bines sway in the wind. It would take awhile but eventually the poles will cut through. You could drill a hole and pass it through but you would be much better attaching a bolt with eyelets to it to attach them too. In fact, put at least 1 turnbuckle with each cable because I have found they tend to stretch...a lot.

 

[Bezel]

I did something similar, my poles are splayed out at a 20 degree angle, I used turnbuckles to connect the support cable to the poles and another turnbuckle down to a deadman. I priced aircraft cable and holy crap expensive. I ended up getting a stainless dog run cable from walmart for under $10th for 80 ft. Works very well

 

[RoughandReadyRanch]

R&RR: Something in your description isn't quite adding up for me.

16 rhizomes planted 3' apart = 48 feet total

Where does the 80 feet come into play? Let's just go with that...

3 poles/pipes for 80 feet, which means 40 feet between pipes...at 3' per plant, 13 plants per section or 26 total.

Assume at full growth, 30 lb per plant dead weight, may 2 to 3 times that with the wind blowing. So your 6800 lb breaking point anchor should be fine. I would use 3/8" cable across the top, maybe 1/4". I haven't reviewed those calculations in awhile.

A couple of hints, make sure the metal poles are painted, especially the part that is going into the ground. Otherwise, ground moisture and moisture in the cement will rot them away.

I would also be careful of just cutting a groove. Those wires are going to move as the bines sway in the wind. It would take awhile but eventually the poles will cut through. You could drill a hole and pass it through but you would be much better attaching a bolt with eyelets to it to attach them too. In fact, put at least 1 turnbuckle with each cable because I have found they tend to stretch...a lot.

Sorry I guess I typed that wrong it would be 13 and 13 for each 40' gap. So you are saying drill and eye hole at the top of the pipe on each side and then run 40' length each way down to an anchor? So essentially a center pole with two 40' lengths of cable running off it? Thanks again guys for the quick response. I will be setting the pipe into concrete so not sure if the paint would really do to much for my but I can pressure wash it and paint it if I can find or purchase the washer. Not quite sure how to avoid cutting the groove on the end pipe unless you are saying two eye holes and a turn buckle on each end for stack. The last plants on the line will be 2ft from the pole so I could slip a turn buckle in. Again thanks

 

[Bezel]

Yep, eye bolts drilled on both sides of the pipe, turn buckle hooked to that, cable hooked to that, allows me to tension easily, will post a pic when I get home,

 

[cram]

The 40' of distance between poles is quite a stretch and with 13 mature plants strung between them acting as a sail when the wind is blowing that's going to be interesting. Still that 2.5" well pipe is pretty heavy stuff, so it might suffice. I would likely err on the side of caution and bring them a little closer together though. For instance, you could plant some hops on the deadman sides of the pole (but don't let them climb the cable or you won't be able to lower them for harvest). I use old well-pipe, too, and have found that I can run a line across similar to how you've described but also put a PVC collar that can slide up and down the the pipe that I can teepee some vertical lines up to as well for plants adjacent to the main row (or outside of the pole). Come harvest I have separate lowering mechanism for the row and the teepee. This would allow you to have the same number as you intended without as great a distance between poles.

Another idea for the well-pipe itself is to sink a six foot piece of galvanized pipe down four feet just packed in soil (or cement it in if you prefer) and then drop the well-pipe into that. Essentially it would be sleeved so you could pull out the well-pipe over winter and/or drop the set-up for harvest and such. This would add to cost but give you some more options for harvest, replacement, and during the off-season. I tied some of my poles into an existing fence that used galvanized fence poles so, for my set-up, it made the whole process easier since I simply drop the well-pipe into the existing, cemented galvanized poles but I like the flexibility it offers (you can even add height this way) and might do the same thing if I was to do this in an open field.

 

[cram]

Also, instead of drilling an eyebolt, you could wrap some wire around a key-ring or welded loop at the top of the poles and run the cable through that...it's what I did but was mostly because that's what I had on-hand.

 

[RoughandReadyRanch]

I lack a welder at this time and I think the eye holes on each end with 40' and turnbuckles on both sides to help the sag should work. This is not exactly a huge structure and I figure we can add to it down the road as I have 160acres in total and this is just a small trial that will produce enough hops to hopefully allow me to bypass a dual use permit application to proceed in a small nanobrewery based on agricultural on site production of hops. I am putting in 118 rhizomes total so we shall see. That is about 118 hours of work and the drying should be interesting as well. Again thanks everyone for you help and pictures are always appreciated as I am absolutely dense when it comes to this type of stuff. It's that look before you leap thing that gets me in trouble I guess, but I am doing OK given the current outcomes so far in life.

 

[Bezel]

My pipe is sucker rod, think it is the same thing you are talking about, they are 64 feet apart, have had no issues

 

[RoughandReadyRanch]

My pipe is sucker rod, think it is the same thing you are talking about, they are 64 feet apart, have had no issues

Any pic's? How are you running your line and what size 1/4", 3/8"? Eye hole with turnbuckles? bring me a bit of relief if you are using the same thing I am without issue because I was starting to think I was in deep .... I am no expert and have no real clue what I am doing here so this is all a learning process but at the same time I am trying not to A) injure self or others due to poor construction and B) Not lose crop while not breaking the bank.

 

[Bezel]

Think the line us 3/16 and coated with a blue plastic, here are the pics

 

[Bezel]

Last years growth was awsome, ran three lines per plant and did 2 bines per line at about 15 ft height, so about 90 feet per plant. 2 chinooks, a centenial, a us golding, a willamette, 2 cascades.... Took hours to pick...

 

[RoughandReadyRanch]

Last years growth was awsome, ran three lines per plant and did 2 bines per line at about 15 ft height, so about 90 feet per plant. 2 chinooks, a centenial, a us golding, a willamette, 2 cascades.... Took hours to pick...

Thanks a lot! These pics are great and the info is totally what I needed. What angle did you set your pole and how deep?

 

[Bezel]

I think 20* and I sunk them 3 ft in concrete. I used turnbuckles on both ends and on the deadman. Have got to get my string up this weekend, the chinook already has 4 or 5 feet of growth

 

[GVH_Dan]

I will be setting the pipe into concrete so not sure if the paint would really do to much for my but I can pressure wash it and paint it if I can find or purchase the washer.

Its not cleaning that matters, its corrosion resistance. Get rustoleum or similar, even the stuff in cement. It will still hold moisture and corrode the pole.