Recipe Critiques

[dnr]

I'm working on a Peruvian Purple Cornmeal Chicha de Jora INSPIRED brew. It's an experiment in partial mash, building a recipe, seeing if my math works out and adjuncts.
I don't have a LHBS currently, so I could only find Baker's yeast at the beginning of quarantine.
The Fleischmann's yeast actually leans a little Belgian or like WLP300. A hint of banana and clove...slightly creamy?

 

[rhys333]

I don't know anything about this specialty beer, so I can't advise you on that, but I noticed that you're using flaked corn in an extract batch which isn't going to work for you. It needs malted grain to make it convert the starches to sugar. You'll either want to retool this as a partial mash recipe, or remove the corn and use sugar instead.

 

[dnr]

Forgive me if I'm being ignorant or naive, but I thought brewing with LME and cornstarch in considered a partial mash? I mean, if this recipe just doesn't make sense, then I can just add my hops, brown sugar and gooseberries. I figured it would be a fun experiment.

 

[IslandLizard]

Forgive me if I'm being ignorant or naive, but I thought brewing with LME and cornstarch in considered a partial mash? I mean, if this recipe just doesn't make sense, then I can just add my hops, brown sugar and gooseberries. I figured it would be a fun experiment.

A few of us had talked about doing a partial mash in this previous thread of yours:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/grocery-store-ingredients.679615/
Sorry, it must have fallen through the cracks, or we weren't clear enough:
LME and cornstarch (or flaked corn, milled corn, etc.) does NOT constitute a partial mash.
Reason: LME is a concentrated sugar extract with no diastatic (enzymatic) power. It cannot convert starches into sugars. You'd need to use a "diastatic malt" to do that.

Mashing is a process where (grain) starches are diastatically converted to (fermentable) sugars and (unfermentable) dextrins.
Diastatic means enzymatic, by means of enzymes. Enzymes are present in malted grain (and in many other places, such as saliva, various molds).

A partial mash is typically used as an extension of extract brewing. The extract provides most of the fermentables. The partial mash, done beforehand, converts starchy (unfermentable) adjuncts to fermentable sugars with the help of a diastatic malt. It contributes sugars to the batch, but not the majority of them.

Usually a 1:1 ratio of unfermentable adjunct : diastatic malt is used.
For example, to convert 1 pound of flaked corn you'd add 1 pound of 2-row (barley) and mash them together for an hour.

Please read up on mashing in general and partial mashing especially.
The old online version of How to Brew is a venerable resource for beginning brewers.
If you're serious about brewing, the newest, 4th Ed. is very recommended.
And reading HBT!

 

[bracconiere]

could always resort to industrial enzymes......still could use a cereal mash for the corn too.....i know, i know, flaked....but still, and also 1lb in a 5 gallon batch wouldn't add much gravity anyway....


as a side note, my biggest concern would be the baker's yeast, i tried it, ended up having to pour half my kegs out because of crappy flocculation.....

 

[dnr]

Thanks. The research I had done seemed to say that using extract and grains was considered a partial mash. This is what you get when you search the term.

Maybe I've confused regular steeping grains with a grain that would actually have to be converted to fermentables through proper mashing.

I have been watching videos and reading up on all aspects of brewing that I can.
Basic Brewing Radio
4Brewers
Homebrew 4 Life
Brülosophy
Beer & Brewing
Clawhammer Supply
And the list goes on...

 

[dnr]

could always resort to industrial enzymes......still could use a cereal mash for the corn too.....i know, i know, flaked....but still, and also 1lb in a 5 gallon batch wouldn't add much gravity anyway....


as a side note, my biggest concern would be the baker's yeast, i tried it, ended up having to pour half my kegs out because of crappy flocculation.....

Trust me, US-05 is on my "to buy" list with bottle caps. I tried a few experiments with my Baker's yeast to see how it does with temps, flocculation and attenuation. I'm not an expert, but I know what does in a week for the most part.

 

[IslandLizard]

The research I had done [...] This is what you get when you search the term.

No. You get 1,000,000+ returns, and you didn't pick one that explained it.

Yeast:

my biggest concern would be the baker's yeast, i tried it, ended up having to pour half my kegs out because of crappy flocculation.....

Yeah, same here. Please don't use baker's yeast for beer.
I don't know where you shop, but for example, these guys are well stocked, including yeast. There are many others:
http://www.ritebrew.com/category-s/1923.htmYou'd want US-05. 1 pouch is enough for 5-6 gallon batch up to 1.060 (perhaps even larger). Buy a few, they keep for years in the freezer. You can also repitch slurries from previous fermentations if you can keep things sanitary.

My local brew store 20' away has curb pickup on orders placed earlier that day. One of my brew friends picked up a sack of malt today, he's brewing tomorrow. Have you checked around?

could always resort to industrial enzymes...

Sure, but what's the fun of that?

... still could use a cereal mash for the corn too.....i know, i know, flaked....but still,

Absolutely necessary, I think I mentioned that in the other thread too. Gelatinization of the starches is crucial for the following mash to be successful. Otherwise, why do it at all?

Regardless of it being flaked/ground/milled, those corn pieces are rock hard. I boil the (bright) yellow "flaked" corn from the brewstore for an hour in water, it becomes corn soup. A cereal mash takes just as long, I'll do that next time, to see if there are a few more points to be eked out. Then add cold water and mash the rest of the grain bill in it.

also 1lb in a 5 gallon batch wouldn't add much gravity anyway....

Yeah, for only 1 pound it's hardly worth the bother. I seriously doubt even the OP would even notice it's in there when all is done.
Now 3 or 4 pounds of that corn does make it at least worthwhile. And he may be able to actually find/taste/see it in the final beer, but it will still be quite subtle though, unless it has a very unique flavor to bring to the beer party.

Together with 3-4 pounds of 2-row for the "mini-mash" he'd have 50-60% of his gravity just from those 2 already. That's an hour well spent.

So, @dnr, if you want to do mini-mashes using some of those (exotic) raw grain varieties you listed before, don't forget to buy enough milled 2-row malt for the next few batches. Remember, you need to match them pound for pound. Do you have a local shop with curbside or window pickup?

 

[camonick]

Here’s a good step by step explanation of the partial mash/ mini mash process.
https://homebrewsupply.com/learn/easy-partial-mash-brewing-7-steps.html

 

[IslandLizard]

Here’s a good step by step explanation of the partial mash/ mini mash process.
https://homebrewsupply.com/learn/easy-partial-mash-brewing-7-steps.html

That's a good guide. The only things I would change is not using a grain bag.
Instead:

1. Mix the (milled) grain into the water in the pot, stir well for at least a minute.
2. Keep the pot in a 150-160F preheated, but turned off oven for the duration of the mash (1 hour).
3. Stir again, halfway through, and return to the oven.
4. Strain through a sieve (or colander), and "vorlauf" by pouring the collected wort over the pile of grain again, to filter out the small bits of grain and dust.
5. Then sparge once or twice following the same straining/vorlauf method.
6. Good stirring is key.

I was doing partial mashes long before I knew there was a name for it.

Now those partial mash instructions don't go into the water used.

Since you're brewing extract using RO water (or distilled water) is usually recommended. RO water runs around $0.39 a gallon from the machine at Wally's World or local supermarket. Bring your own jugs. That removes a lot of unknowns from the brewing process.

Now, if your tap water is (fairly) soft, clean smelling and tasting (e.g., no iron and manganese content), and not gone through a water softener (high Sodium, Na+ content) it's probably fine to use for brewing. If your tap water comes from a (municipal) water company, remove the chlorine/chloramine they've put in with 1/4 crushed Campden tablet (or a pinch of K-Meta) per 5 gallons.

 

[bracconiere]

Strain through a sieve (or colander), and "vorlauf" by pouring the collected wort over the pile of grain again, to filter out the small bits of grain and dust.

good idea....i was wondering how to filter it.....figuring 1.3qt/lb, wouldn't be that much for 2 lb's of grain.....

 

[IslandLizard]

good idea....i was wondering how to filter it.....figuring 1.3qt/lb, wouldn't be that much for 2 lb's of grain.....

1.3 qt/lb is darn thick for a mash. That definitely needs to be sparged 2x or the efficiency tanks.

With larger (partial mashes) there's no need to dump the whole grist into the colander either if there's too much. As long as there's at least 2" high heap it will filter fine.

 

[dnr]

Okay. Thank you, everyone. Lots of information to absorb and read through.
@IslandLizard there's a HBS about a half hour drive from me that's rarely open. It was closed for the majority of quarantine and its website is trash. I tried ordering something, and it's just all over the place. Like I said, I need to order yeast and bottle caps, but I won't be Brewing for at least another week.

I'll read everything over and revise my recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

Okay. Thank you, everyone. Lots of information to absorb and read through.

YVW!
Yes, there's a lot that goes with brewing once you step outside the Duncan Hines' realm.
I definitely recommend reading Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.

There are many excellent online suppliers around, you don't have to rely on some marginal local shop. But maybe there's a better local shop 45' away.
Check around, compare pricing, and shipping rates.
Grain is heavy, so shipping it can get expensive. Some places offer free shipping once a minimum order amount is reached. For example, MoreBeer offers free shipping on orders over $59. 10# bags of grain are included, but 55# bags are not. Quality of service also varies widely.

Most outfits' milling sucks (even most LHBS), so you'd need to find a way to crush or re-crush it yourself. I've read that blenders can mill/grind grain. Milled grain doesn't stay fresh forever (1-2 years if stored cool and dry), whole (unmilled) grain kernels fare the test of time much better.
Knock-off "Corona Mills" (Corn mills) can be had for $25. Roller mills are $100 and up. You can sometimes find used ones on CL, from brew club members, classifieds here and elsewhere, etc.

 

[dnr]

This is going to take a lot more research. The next closest HBS is over State lines closer to NYC, and I'm not going there right now or anytime soon. And after that would be almost 2hr roundtrip. I live in the middle of the worst stretch of I-95.
I'll look into a few sites and plan an order. Maybe even just Amazon prime it for a smaller order.

I started listening to Basic Brewing Radio from the very beginning to even get the most simple stuff explained again.
Yay science!
And to think... I'll be attending Yale in a year.
Sheesh.

 

[camonick]

Atlantic Brew Supply is in Raleigh, NC and ships everywhere. They have great prices for grains and you can order in fractional increments. $8.00 flat rate shipping on orders over $25. I order from them frequently and have no complaints. Really watch the prices on amazon... sometimes they are ridiculously high ($10/lb for grain). Bottle caps and other supplies might be different.

 

[dnr]

I know not to buy hops or malt on Amazon. They really have to the pricing. Even 2-day free shipping isn't worth that hike.

Bottle caps are reasonable, and I'll look into treats and other small items.
I have looked into Atlantic Brew. They're saved into my Beer Bookmarks for next time I order something.