My Stout Tastes Like Soy Sauce

[ViciousGolden]

I really don't understand how this happened. The only crazy thing that happened during the boil was I was unable to drop the temperature fast enough, so I just racked it into the fermenter at 100+ degrees, put an airlock on it, and then pitched the yeast the next day. 3 weeks in the primary at about 70 degrees. Primed with sugar and bottled. I tasted it at bottling and it was great. I was very happy with it, and it came out exactly how I intended. Spent the next two weeks bragging to everyone about how good my stout was going to be when it was ready. Opened the first bottle after the two week aging, and it tasted like Soy Sauce. I even had the wife try it, and she agreed that it was as bad as I thought. She also tasted it at bottling so I had a witness that it was good at one point. What causes this? Contamination? Yeast? Bad Extract? The remaining bottles are still in the closet at 70 degrees, and I'm going to give it another week of aging and try it again. Can anyone help?

 

[Yooper]

I really don't understand how this happened. The only crazy thing that happened during the boil was I was unable to drop the temperature fast enough, so I just racked it into the fermenter at 100+ degrees, put an airlock on it, and then pitched the yeast the next day. 3 weeks in the primary at about 70 degrees. Primed with sugar and bottled. I tasted it at bottling and it was great. I was very happy with it, and it came out exactly how I intended. Spent the next two weeks bragging to everyone about how good my stout was going to be when it was ready. Opened the first bottle after the two week aging, and it tasted like Soy Sauce. I even had the wife try it, and she agreed that it was as bad as I thought. She also tasted it at bottling so I had a witness that it was good at one point. What causes this? Contamination? Yeast? Bad Extract? The remaining bottles are still in the closet at 70 degrees, and I'm going to give it another week of aging and try it again. Can anyone help?

I know of two reasons- one is aged extract and the other is oxidation. When darker beers exhibit oxidation, they tend to get first a "sherry" type of flavor, and then soy sauce flavor. I've never had soy sauce flavor in an oxidized lighter color beer, so it must be the roasted grains doing that.

 

[Johnson1522]

I like the fact that you consider your wife a "witness." As if we wouldn't believe that it tasted good.

Sorry to hear about your brew. I intend to try my first stout pretty soon so Yooper's reply will be noted. I'm definitely subscribing to the thread to see how yours turns out.

 

[ViciousGolden]

I don't trust myself, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't just going nuts. I will post an update Saturday and let you know I it got any better. That was my last extract batch though. I'm doing all grain via BIAB until I get my M/L tun built. That way, I will be able to take extract out of the equation. I will convert the stout recipe to all grain and try it in June, hopefully with my new tun.

 

[homebrewdad]

If oxidation is the culprit, you could try another bottle or two to be sure that the problem wasn't isolated to that given bottle.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I've heard that autolyzed yeast can produce free glutamates, which is the building block for the "umami" flavor enhancers used in food. Soy sauce has that as well. If you look on food labels and see "autolyzed yeast extract," that usually means MSG. If a beer has been on a lot of yeast for a long time, it's possible for autolysis to occur.

I've heard some aged beers described by beer judges as having an "umami essence" before. So maybe it's not a far stretch.

Just a thought. It might not have anything to do with it, but maybe it does? Something to look into perhaps.

 

[homebrewdad]

There's no way he's having autolysis at three weeks of primary.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

There's no way he's having autolysis at three weeks of primary.

It can happen in the bottle too. But, looks like it only sat in the bottle for 2 weeks. Not long enough for autolysis.

I wouldn't dismiss the idea though.

 

[homebrewdad]

It can happen in the bottle too. But, looks like it only sat in the bottle for 2 weeks. Not long enough for autolysis.

I wouldn't dismiss the idea though.

If a three week primary followed by two weeks in the bottle caused autolysis, two thirds (or more) of the vets on these forums would never brew drinkable beer.

Hold on to the idea if it makes you feel better, but this is not the culprit here.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

If a three week primary followed by two weeks in the bottle caused autolysis, two thirds (or more) of the vets on these forums would never brew drinkable beer.

Hold on to the idea if it makes you feel better, but this is not the culprit here.

Google it.

I'm busy brewing at the moment, but with a quick glance at search results, I think the idea is entirely possible.

 

[ViciousGolden]

For giggles, I opened a second bottle, just to see if I got lucky. This bottle is perfect. Tastes amazing. No soy or sweet and sour cat flavor at all. So, I guess I'll just take it on a bottle by bottle basis. I have 12 chilling now, and 48 still in the ferment closet, continuing to age. I will let you guys know as I work my way through these bottles

 

[Yooper]

There's no way he's having autolysis at three weeks of primary.

Sure you can.

Yeast start dying the moment they are born, just as we humans are.

Autolysis happens, in varying degrees, throughout fermentation.

You may not detect it in small amounts, but that doesn't mean it's not there. That "yeast character" that I don't care for in beers that have had a long primary is an example. It may not be meaty or rotten, but it's happening.

In extreme cases (hot temperatures especially), the beer can develop flavors of autolysis quickly but in less extreme cases it may occur more slowly. It's just a matter of degree. Just like you can't taste 5 grams of salt in 5 gallons of spaghetti sauce, you could easily taste that much in a teaspoonful.

That said, it sounds like this is limited to just a bottle or two so I'd attribute it to something like oxidation in those bottles for whatever reason (bottle foaming when filled, etc).

 

[homebrewdad]

Sure you can.

Yeast start dying the moment they are born, just as we humans are.

Autolysis happens, in varying degrees, throughout fermentation.

You may not detect it in small amounts, but that doesn't mean it's not there. That "yeast character" that I don't care for in beers that have had a long primary is an example. It may not be meaty or rotten, but it's happening.

In extreme cases (hot temperatures especially), the beer can develop flavors of autolysis quickly but in less extreme cases it may occur more slowly. It's just a matter of degree. Just like you can't taste 5 grams of salt in 5 gallons of spaghetti sauce, you could easily taste that much in a teaspoonful.

That said, it sounds like this is limited to just a bottle or two so I'd attribute it to something like oxidation in those bottles for whatever reason (bottle foaming when filled, etc).

All I'm saying is that if a three week primary made soy sauce beer, you wouldn't see so very many homebrewers beating the drum for it. And yeah, if it's one bottle, it seems more like an oxidation problem.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Agreed on all accounts.

 

[Beergazzi]

Since the beer isn't flat, my initial reaction to the thread titles is wrong, but at first glance I was positive he used salt by mistake for priming.

 

[Andrikos]

For giggles, I opened a second bottle, just to see if I got lucky. This bottle is perfect. Tastes amazing. No soy or sweet and sour cat flavor at all. So, I guess I'll just take it on a bottle by bottle basis. I have 12 chilling now, and 48 still in the ferment closet, continuing to age. I will let you guys know as I work my way through these bottles

Glad it was an isolated (hopefully) incident.
Worst case scenario if some more bottles taste soy-saucey, you can cook with them. No need to get rid of them.

Also, look into bottle sanitation, maybe some stuff made it into the bottles and you were unable to detect them especially if the bottles are dark.

Btw, I'm intrigued by the "sour cat" flavor idea.

 

[ViciousGolden]

I've been through a 6 pack or so and they have all been awesome. There was one bottle, however, that I thought I detected a slight soy off flavor, but I wasn't sure. Either way, I'm glad I don't have to throw out the entire 6+ gallon batch. I just take it one bottle at a time, and if I'm sharing, I always pour and taste before I hand it to someone. I think I'm going to chalk this up to oxidation in certain bottles, or bottle cleanliness/prep issues. Thanks for all your help guys.