Black Rye IPA Recipe Formulation

[biersmith]

Hello, HomebrewTalk!

I have no experience in recipe formulation, so I'm hoping for some input on a recipe idea I have. I'm trying to create this recipe without completely basing it off of something already out there.

Please take a look and critique! Here's what I'm looking at...

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast British Ale 1098
Yeast Starter: No
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5 gal
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.016
IBU: 65
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 33.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 68*F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 28 days @ 72*F

9.5 lbs Rahr 2-row
4.5 lbs Rye Malt
0.5 lbs Carafa II Special
0.5 lbs Black Patent
0.5 lbs Special Roast

1 oz. Centennial 60 min.
1 oz. Centennial 30 min.
1 oz. Centennial 15 min.
1 oz. Centennial 0 min
1 oz. Centennial dry hop

Mash: 154*F, 60 min

Efficiency: 70%

 

[forstmeister]

Looks like a fun recipe to try. One thing though: there is no need for a 28 day secondary fermentation. After 2 weeks in primary (maybe 3, depending on when fermentation is complete), transfer to secondary and dryhop for 1 week and then bottle.

 

[biersmith]

Good advice. I'll change that.

Any other thoughts on the ingredients? Does it seem like a feasible Black IPA/Rye beer to you?

 

[NedStackey]

Nice. I may have to try this one as well. I remember Hanger 24 had a Black Rye IPA and it was amazing.

 

[gometz]

A few notes, but as I am a novice maybe have a pro confirm:

- large amount of rye, will it mash right?
- for an OG over 1.060 I think you should double pitch or use a starter

Good luck! My black imperial came out very tasty and it was a partial mash.

 

[NedStackey]

Would flakes be better to use?

 

[forstmeister]

You can use malted rye just fine. You will probably want to use rice hulls to avoid a stuck mash. Or maybe use rye LME instead.

 

[biersmith]

You can use malted rye just fine. You will probably want to use rice hulls to avoid a stuck mash. Or maybe use rye LME instead.

What is it about the rye that can cause a stuck mash?

 

[biersmith]

Nice. I may have to try this one as well. I remember Hanger 24 had a Black Rye IPA and it was amazing.

I agree, NedStackey. Doesn't a Black Rye IPA sound tasty?

Does anyone have any comment on the hops?

 

[nullifidian]

A black rye ipa sounds delicious. Hope this turns out well!

 

[NedStackey]

I just did one using Amarillo as the dry hop. I really enjoyed. I used Centennial and Simcoe in the boil and they all played very nicely together.

 

[forstmeister]

What is it about the rye that can cause a stuck mash?

Rye congeals much like wheat does.

 

[jperry]

I would not use that much Rye Malt. It is 32% of the total grain bill, I'd take at least a pound and a half off, so that it's around 20%. Also, the hop additions look alright, except the small dry hop. I'd use at least a few ounces, for the dry hop. I'm sure others will agree, but thats just Me, and I like my IPA's hoppy, really hoppy. I would also mash a bit lower, around 150, to dry it up more. Anyways, this looks like the start to a great beer, so have fun, and let us know what you end up with.

 

[biersmith]

I would not use that much Rye Malt. It is 32% of the total grain bill, I'd take at least a pound and a half off, so that it's around 20%. Also, the hop additions look alright, except the small dry hop. I'd use at least a few ounces, for the dry hop. I'm sure others will agree, but thats just Me, and I like my IPA's hoppy, really hoppy. I would also mash a bit lower, around 150, to dry it up more. Anyways, this looks like the start to a great beer, so have fun, and let us know what you end up with.

Thank you for the advice! If I reduce the rye malt, should I increase the 2 row and/or some of the others?

 

[Effingbeer]

I get my blackness with a de-bittered malt like Briess Blackprinz or Carafa III
I also like Briess Midnight wheat for some extra flavor and body.
Black patent is too roasty for what I'm looking for and can add that astringent bitterness that can clash with my hops. In either case, be careful on the IBU's. Most of the crappy ones are way to high and then adding bitter black malts makes it feel like cocoa mocha battery acid on your tongue.
Search for the Darth Vader thread(I'm too lazy to post a link) quite a few good pointers there from others.
I've had mine evaluated by a couple different BJCP judges. They have all given me similar responses: "Weird, but delicious."

 

[biersmith]

It's funny you mention that one. I saw it out there and copied it for formatting there recipe in this post. I'll read the thread. Thanks!

 

[jperry]

Thank you for the advice! If I reduce the rye malt, should I increase the 2 row and/or some of the others?

Yes, increase the 2 row, to what you'd like, and consider replacing some black patent and special roast, with crystal rye malt and midnight wheat. What I am suggesting is stepping into Firestone Wookey Jack territory, though. Roasty flavors are not really sought after, in a black ipa, you just want the colors from dark malts, or else it tastes like a stout.

 

[biersmith]

Yes, increase the 2 row, to what you'd like, and consider replacing some black patent and special roast, with crystal rye malt and midnight wheat. What I am suggesting is stepping into Firestone Wookey Jack territory, though. Roasty flavors are not really sought after, in a black ipa, you just want the colors from dark malts, or else it tastes like a stout.

Good point. Thanks.

 

[gometz]

I used some chocolate wheat in my black IPA and it came out great.

 

[GunnerBrewer]

Hello, HomebrewTalk!

I have no experience in recipe formulation, so I'm hoping for some input on a recipe idea I have. I'm trying to create this recipe without completely basing it off of something already out there.

Please take a look and critique! Here's what I'm looking at...

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast British Ale 1098
Yeast Starter: No
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5 gal
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.016
IBU: 65
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 33.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 68*F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 28 days @ 72*F

9.5 lbs Rahr 2-row
4.5 lbs Rye Malt
0.5 lbs Carafa II Special
0.5 lbs Black Patent
0.5 lbs Special Roast

1 oz. Centennial 60 min.
1 oz. Centennial 30 min.
1 oz. Centennial 15 min.
1 oz. Centennial 0 min
1 oz. Centennial dry hop

Mash: 154*F, 60 min

Efficiency: 70%

Anyone have an idea on how to convert this to an extract recipe?

 

[biersmith]

Anyone have an idea on how to convert this to an extract recipe?

You can swap a light LME or DME for the 2-row, 6 pounds of either. The DME will get you closer to the target OG. Norhthern Brewer sells a Rye LME you could use in place of the Rye Malt, probably the 3 pound size.

 

[biersmith]

Okay, so after all the tips, here's what I'm looking at:

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast British Ale 1098
Yeast Starter: Yes
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5 gal
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.017
IBU: 65
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 33.6 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 68*F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days @ 72*F

10.5 lbs Rahr 2-row
3.5 lbs Rye Malt
1.0 lbs Weyermann Carafa II Special Dehusked
0.5 lbs Simpsons Crystal Rye
0.5 lbs Special Roast

1 oz. Centennial 60 min.
1 oz. Centennial 30 min.
1 oz. Centennial 15 min.
1 oz. Centennial 0 min
2 oz. Centennial dry hop

Mash: 150*F, 60 min

Efficiency: 70%

 

[JeffD1]

I'm definitely going to try this. You asked a while back if you should make a starter and I didn't see an answer to that yet. You will have to make a starter or pitch more than one packet of yeast. Use yeastcalc.com to determine how big of a starter.

 

[Sowen]

So, how'd the brew turn out? Sounds great!