Hi there, I have been brewing for a year and a half or so. I have noticed almost every beer I have made (7) has had a very similar flavor. I was not able to put a finger on it, assuming it was yeast. I recently entered a competition, and although I received 4th out of 35, they pointed out the taste is oxidation. I have done a lot of searching on here and a lot of tasting of known oxidation problems, and that is for sure my issue. My question here is where am I going wrong?? I am fermenting in my basement. When it is time for bottling I transfer to my bottling bucket without moving the beer (as to not mix up the yeast). I carry it upstairs, and bottle at the dishwasher, bottling all of them, and then capping them all, then carrying back downstairs for storage. My thoughts are it is either from carrying back upstairs ( I try not to slosh, but some happens) or bottling ( I use bottling wand, over flow just a little bit) I happened to notice a bottle I had from a friend had alot less headspace than mine?? I also use an auto siphon for transferring. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Oxidation
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Your process seems ok, it's what I did for a while. I assume if you're being that careful working with your beer your doing the other things like no splashing when transferring, filling the bottles and buckets from the bottom up, etc. Where is your beer coming from, a kit or mash? Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that some oxidation could start before the brewer and up to the maltster, making it hard to isolate other than doing a batch using different malt sources. I know, that's not really a good variable to add to a problem that already can occur in almost every step of the brewer's process.
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
This is positively incorrect. Oxidation is caused by the introduction of oxygen to the brew post fermentation. What happens to the malt could not be less relevant. Think about it - we aerate the wort when we pitch yeast, so that it can use that oxygen to propogate (growth phase). After the growth phase, the yeast go into anerobic fermentation mode... any oxygen introduced does not go away, and causes staling of the beer.
OP, you need to carefully consider your proceedure. Do you splash when siphoning to the bottling bucket? Perhaps stir the priming sugar in too vigorously? Have a leaky racking cane/auto siphon? Slosh the beer at some other time?
Just re-read the paper I was referencing ( http://hbd.org/discus/messages/40327/Malt_storage_LOX-42066.pdf if anyone is curious). And I stand corrected. Even though conclusions are drawn as to oxygenation reactions during malting, it turns out the products are in fact irrelevant in most cases for homebrewing time-frames.
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
I could see oxygenation causing staling of the malts themselves - stale malt doesn't make as tasty of beer as fresh malt - but yeah, this is not what the OP is experiencing.
If oxidation is the issue you have to look at all your procedures post fermentation to see where excess oxygen is being introduced. Any sloshing? Leaky siphons? Bad capping? You will have to keep looking until you can narrow down on the culprit.
chicken
Well-Known Member
My assumption would be a leaky siphon letting air in, or too much sloshing or splashing while siphoning.
You mentioned a friend's beer having much less headspace --how much headspace are you leaving?
Is there a reason you're carrying it upstairs after transferring to the bottling bucket? Wouldn't it be easier just to bottle in the basement?
You mentioned a friend's beer having much less headspace --how much headspace are you leaving?
Is there a reason you're carrying it upstairs after transferring to the bottling bucket? Wouldn't it be easier just to bottle in the basement?
I am currently doing extract with specialty grains. I am carrying everything upstairs so I will have a counter to work on and a drain nearby for any spills. It is not a necessity, but for ease of operation. Someone mentioned priming sugar, and that could be a suspect I didn't think of. I usually boil about a cup or so of water, and mix in my priming sugar, and then pour it into the bottom of the bottling bucket. I should probably be boiling the water again after adding priming sugar to get that air back out? Can a cup of water hold enough air to degrade 5 gallons of beer? Anyways, I then coil the hose in the bottom of the bucket and transfer away, naturally mixing the priming water/beer. Attempting no splashing here. Continuing on to bottling I usually leave about 1 - 1 1/2 inch of head space. As I go I see several places there could be some air entering. I guess the better question would be, just how much air is needed to screw stuff up? I was wanting to take the plunge this weekend to all grain, but perhaps I should put that money towards kegging instead? Or will I likely have the same issues? Thanks everyone for all those quick replies!
Do you use a secondary?
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
Age of the beer can be a factor, but you need to have serious age. I have three batches that age more than a year old, and not a single bottle shows any oxidation.
In fact, two of the three batches (a ~8% Belgian blonde and a ~8.6% imperial nut brown ale) are as good as the have ever been. The 5.25% brown ale is a bit muted... the verybest flavor days are in the past for it, but I get no wet cardboard/sherry flavors that are associated with oxidation.
I don't believe age is the problem here. Very rarely does a beer stay in the basement much over a month after being fully carbonated. I did however buy the oxygen absorbing caps to try on the beer I will be making this weekend, figuring every little bit will help!
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
Storing bottles on their sides or excess shaking can introduce some oxygen in bottles.
Any headspace in the secondary?
I'd suggest moving the fermenter before racking to the bottling bucket- maybe the day before, so it has time to settle. Then you're not carrying a full bucket with lots of headspace up stairs. It's got to slosh around to do that.
In the beers with a "primary only" (which is what I do), how long did you leave them in primary, and how much headspace was there? I guess I'm picturing a bucket that sat quite a while with a lot of headspace as being a potential cause.
Most older beers do exhibit some oxidation, and an experienced judge would pick that up, but if you're getting oxidation flavors in young beers it definitely points to a handling issue.
The priming solution is not the cause here- that wouldn't allow oxygen pickup and even if it did 1 or 2 cups wouldn't cause oxidation of the batch.
In the beers with a "primary only" (which is what I do), how long did you leave them in primary, and how much headspace was there? I guess I'm picturing a bucket that sat quite a while with a lot of headspace as being a potential cause.
Most older beers do exhibit some oxidation, and an experienced judge would pick that up, but if you're getting oxidation flavors in young beers it definitely points to a handling issue.
The priming solution is not the cause here- that wouldn't allow oxygen pickup and even if it did 1 or 2 cups wouldn't cause oxidation of the batch.
The fermentation bucket is the typical 6.5 or 7 gallon bucket, so there is head space in it, but wouldn't the co2 push the air out making it impossible for the oxygen to touch the beer? I have varied the amount of time I leave them in there, somewhere between 1-3 weeks. I think I may go with the carry it upstairs the night before bottling, so it has a few hours to settle back out, yet doesn't have the oxygen in it to get sloshed through.
drewaight said:
I don't know but suspect the headspace in my 6.5 gallon glass carboy secondary contributed somewhat to my awful IPA.
I am of the opinion that PET would not be a problem unless you are doing VERY long bulk aging. To lessen the chance of oxidation you could get 5.25 gallons into a 5 gallon Better Bottle for secondary. Or, skip the secondary entirely.
