First Barleywine brew

[DanPoch]

I am getting ready to try my hand at a Barleywine next week. Ingredients are on the way! The recipe I have is for 6 gallons and uses 25 lbs Pale Malt and 2 lbs Crystal Malt (40L) and a bunch of fuggles hops.

So I got to thinking, there are probably going to be a lot of sugars left in the mash after collecting my wort to boil (about 8 gallons). I'm thinking of drawing off a second batch to boil at the same time. From other threads here this is called a parti-gyle brew. It is my understanding that the second runnings will have significantly less sugars, and therefore be a smaller beer, which is part of what I like about the idea.

I am having two questions:
1) How can I predict, if it is even possible, what gravity my second runnings will be?

2) Do I need that prediction for making a hop schedule? (I haven't bought hops for this second batch yet)

I'm planning on brewing next Thursday (the 25th I believe) so any help would be, well, helpful.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ds762]

I've done a few parti-gyle brew sessions. I usually end up w a smaller brew w an OG of 1.030 or there abouts.

RDWAHAHB!

 

[Bithead]

Try http://www.antiochsudsuckers.com/tom/Tom-OsParti-GyleCipherinSheet.xls
There's a few others out there. I think Tom's is easiest.

 

[924RACR]

I've just been looking into this... excellent resource here:
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

There's a nice table linked to the end of the article which will help you figure out gravity in the two batches depending on how you split your mash. Basically, it's like you mash for the combined volume at a lower OG - then separate the runnings. He's got it focused on 15-gal batches - either a 1/3 - 2/3 split, or 50/50 - but you could scale no biggie.

I kinda like the looks of the 1.0740 OG batch, which gives you a 1/3 volume at 1.1110 and a 2/3rds batch at 1.0555... or maybe you'd prefer to go 50/50, which wouldn't be too far off that, just a bit lower 'cross the board. Not sure how that'd work with the volume of ingredients you have coming, but as an 8gal barleywine it's probably not far off the mark.

For hopping... what I'm aiming to do is make a fake recipe with the right grain balance and OG to emulate my partial runnings, then work up the hops additions based on that...

You could probably end up with a nice bitter or the like out of the second runnings...

HTH... haven't done it yet, but am looking forward to trying it later this summer, with an IIPA and an IPA.

 

[GrogNerd]

lots of good info and links in THIS THREAD

and a Party Gyle Simulator excel spreadsheet

 

[GrogNerd]

Try http://www.antiochsudsuckers.com/tom/Tom-OsParti-GyleCipherinSheet.xls
There's a few others out there. I think Tom's is easiest.

dead site

 

[sweetcell]

I am having two questions:
1) How can I predict, if it is even possible, what gravity my second runnings will be?

2) Do I need that prediction for making a hop schedule? (I haven't bought hops for this second batch yet)

here is my seat-of-the-pants approach:

you can estimate using the aforementioned tools, but in my experience you can't really tell in advance. for me, partigyle is an exercise in rolling with the punches. once i get my main batch on the propane burner, i'll go back and collect the "small beer" runnings. my two most important tools are a refractometer (or a hydrometer) and brewing software such as BeerSmith. essentially i put together a recipe on the fly: i collect the runnings, being sure to stop before they hit 1.012. once i've collected all my wort i give it a good mix, take another gravity reading, then plug those numbers in the software. if you have BeerSmith you can get it to scale down your original recipe, but for those without BS you don't need to re-create the exact grain bill - just get the base malt vs. crystal balance about the same. from there create a hopping schedule. this approach does require having hops on hand, since you don't know in advance exactly how much you'll need.

i realize this approach won't sit well with the control freaks

 

[DanPoch]

Thanks for the input, guys. Love the spreadsheet.
Looks like if I up my initial grain I can get the barleywine I planned and a session beer also.
Using a similar proportioned smaller recipe to work out the hops is a great idea!