Problem solving off flavor

[Rob Roy]

Hey all, I'm still pretty new to brewing. I've now done 5 batches and all but one has ended up with the same off flavor to the point of almost undrinkable and I'm having trouble figuring out what it is. I seem to follow everything correctly. Mash temps are good ,fermentation temps and longevity seems right and good sanitation practices. What's interesting is the beers with off flavor are Pale ale, IPA, and English bitter while the good batch was a coffee stout. I know little about water chemistry but I wonder if the water used is the issue. I use Los Angeles tap water filtered through a Brita faucet.

Maybe the one good batch being a darker style is coincidence?

The flavor is hard to describe. I don't believe it to be Acetaldehyde or Diacetyl though.

Fementation process had been roughly two weeks in primary and roughly two weeks in bottles before refrigeration. All four weeks maintaining around 70 degrees

 

[Rob Roy]

I just took a look at my city water report. 170 alkalinity. Might that be the issue? Probably going to use bottled water for my next batch.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Here's a website that lists some common off-flavors. I'd recommend reading it and seeing if one of them seems to be what you're experiencing.

https://learn.kegerator.com/off-flavors-in-beer/

How are you brewing? 3-vessel, BIAB (Brew in a Bag), extract?

What kind of yeast are you using? And how are you controlling fermentation temperature?

It's possible that water is the issue. I don't know the ins and outs of water, but my tap water has 16.4 alkalinity. It doesn't hurt to try bottled water (Reverse Osmosis, Distilled, Spring, etc) to see if the off flavor goes away.

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm using a combination of liquid malt extract with mashed specialty grains. I use Sofale S-04 American Ale yeast. I keep my conical fermentor in my bedroom with the air conditioner set to 64 degrees. (It's on the other side of the room so actually fermentor temp is probably closer to 70)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Probably going to use bottled water for my next batch.

liquid malt extract with mashed specialty grains. I use Safale S-04 American Ale yeast.

Brewing with low mineral water (distilled, reverse osmosis, or low mineral spring water) would be a good next step for troubleshooting this problem.

(It's on the other side of the room so actually fermentor temp is probably closer to 70)

As long as the wort temperature is in the upper 60s, you should be OK.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I'm using a combination of liquid malt extract with mashed specialty grains. I use Sofale S-04 American Ale yeast. I keep my conical fermentor in my bedroom with the air conditioner set to 64 degrees. (It's on the other side of the room so actually fermentor temp is probably closer to 70)

The wort can be several degrees above the temperature of the room, so if it's 70 degrees on that side of the room, it might be closer to 75 degrees during peak fermentation. That could be part of the problem.

Also, it's possible that you just don't like S-04. You should try a neutral yeast like S-05 and see if that fixes it. I've only used S-04 a couple times, but I remember it adding a distinct taste. My wife loved it, but I could have done without it.

 

[jschein]

The wort can be several degrees above the temperature of the room, so if it's 70 degrees on that side of the room, it might be closer to 75 degrees during peak fermentation. That could be part of the problem.

Also, it's possible that you just don't like S-04. You should try a neutral yeast like S-05 and see if that fixes it. I've only used S-04 a couple times, but I remember it adding a distinct taste. My wife loved it, but I could have done without it.

Both great points, I don’t like S04 either. I use S05 a lot.
Also I didn’t see do you at least use campden tablets to treat the city water to get rid of chlorine and chloramine?

 

[Lefou]

My first few forays into homebrewing were good fermentations but beers with flaws.
The problem I had was with water and inexperience. Once I switched away from using filtered tap water to low mineral bottled water my beer lost the medicine essence or "Band Aid" taste it formerly had. The first beer using low mineral bottled water and "clean" ale yeast turned out surprisingly well for me, almost lager-like.
The filtered water in my home is drinkable but just not what I want in my beer. Do the switch and compare!

 

[Jag75]

Water has to be the issue of off flavors. When using extract you should be using RO water as the LME has all the salts and acids already .

 

[RM-MN]

I'm using a combination of liquid malt extract with mashed specialty grains. I use Sofale S-04 American Ale yeast. I keep my conical fermentor in my bedroom with the air conditioner set to 64 degrees. (It's on the other side of the room so actually fermentor temp is probably closer to 70)

As mentioned the fermenting beer creates it's own heat so without active cooling your beer temp was probably in the mid to upper 70's. That alone can cause some pretty awful tastes.

Brewing with low mineral water (distilled, reverse osmosis, or low mineral spring water) would be a good next step for troubleshooting this problem.

Since you are brewing with extract and that extract was produced with the correct mineral content of the water, the beer doesn't need any specific mineral content to the water you use. Brewing with low mineral water is the best way to eliminate the possible contribution to the off taste. If you decide to go to all grain, then the mineral content of the water is important.

 

[dmtaylor]

Look up chlorophenol. With city water you have to use Campden in your water before adding any malt to get rid of chlorine. Chlorophenol tastes like medicine, Band-Aids, Chloroseptic sore throat spray.

 

[ncbrewer]

You mentioned the alkalinity is 170. Probably not a huge factor, but that's high. You could check Bru'n Water (https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/) and reduce the alkalinity by adding lactic acid.

 

[Lefou]

Look up chlorophenol. With city water you have to use Campden in your water before adding any malt to get rid of chlorine. Chlorophenol tastes like medicine, Band-Aids, Chloroseptic sore throat spray.

...and you know what?
That flavor perception is all the more aggravating from a yeast producing clove essence. If I recall correctly it was WLP351 I used in one of those flawed beers and is probably a factor in choosing not to use it again.

 

[mashpaddled]

Try using reverse osmosis or distilled water with an extract batch and see if that eliminates the problem. If it does then it is a water issue.

If it doesn't then you are probably best off taking some of the RO/distilled batch to some other local homebrewers to diagnose. It is tough to guess at your off flavor from across the internet not even knowing how accurately your impression of it matches some flavor description of an off-flavor. Homebrewing forums are full of people who looked at one of those lists of off flavors, picked one (usually related to an infection or DMS) and then spend months chasing suggestions from other people only to give up and buy all new equipment and adopt more advanced processes because they could never figure out the source of a problem. Far easier to let some other people taste and give you more pointed advice.

 

[Nick Ormond Brewing Co]

I agree with the people saying it is the water profile.

Use RO and get the Bru'n water spreadsheet and do your own water profiles if you plan on using grain.

Did you ph the wort when you did your starting gravity?

When you boil you keep lid off kettle right?

 

[Scott Kellen]

Si I have about the same level of experience as you with home brewing. My first ale had a bit of a bitter flavor after 4 weeks. 2 fermenting and 2 carbonating. I let the bottles condition an additional 2 weeks before I chilled and I noticed a big improvement in flavor.

My stout had issues with carbonation in that very few bottles produced a head and were more on the flat side.

My water is mountain spring water from an artisanal well and I'm not about to mess with that, people come from all around for the purity of that nearly perfect pH agua.

 

[eddie]

Hey all, I'm still pretty new to brewing. I've now done 5 batches and all but one has ended up with the same off flavor to the point of almost undrinkable and I'm having trouble figuring out what it is. I seem to follow everything correctly. Mash temps are good ,fermentation temps and longevity seems right and good sanitation practices. What's interesting is the beers with off flavor are Pale ale, IPA, and English bitter while the good batch was a coffee stout. I know little about water chemistry but I wonder if the water used is the issue. I use Los Angeles tap water filtered through a Brita faucet.

Maybe the one good batch being a darker style is coincidence?

The flavor is hard to describe. I don't believe it to be Acetaldehyde or Diacetyl though.

Fementation process had been roughly two weeks in primary and roughly two weeks in bottles before refrigeration. All four weeks maintaining around 70 degrees

Is it like a "banana" smell or flavor?