Help Wanted: Boneyard RPM IPA Clone Recipe

[theveganbrewer]

This is a fantastic Oregon beer, only available on tap in parts of Oregon, California, and Washington I believe. It's got Double IPA hop aroma, IPA bitterness, and pale ale smoothness. Fantastic beer. Here's the brewery website with list of beers: http://www.boneyardbeer.com/boneyardbeer/BEERS.html

Here's the web description:

RPM IPA should break the hop tachometer! Pale in color with pineapple and citrus notes exploding from the glass. Boiled and dry-hopped using four northwest hop varieties. Prepare yourself for a wild ride...rev it up with a rpm IPA today!

I found it on tap today, brought it back to the house and ran some tests. I've got 1.008-1.009 FG, 6.75-6.8 Brix FG, estimated OG of 1.058, est ABV 6.5%. Since this isn't canned/bottled/tested, I'm not 100% sold on 7% ABV, might just be a rounding effort on their part?

It is slightly lighter than 6 SRM, I'd say somewhere around 5.7-5.8. Smells very similar to Abrasive, which is basically all Citra. Pure white head, nice lacing. There's some crystal in there, not a bunch, might need some dextrose to get down that dry. Rumors are possibly some or all of Citra, Centennial, Casacade, Chinook, Simcoe, Bravo, CTZ.

There is a ton of hop character in this, it's like double IPA territory. I'd say they FWH with Citra, and then whirlpool. They do techniques similar to Firestone Walker, so it fits the bill.

What do you all think on the FG numbers? Is it 6.??% or are my numbers wrong and it's 7 with a higher SG?

 

[TimBrewz]

I am sitting at 15th Ave, Hophouse in PDX drinking this beer right now with my brewing partner trying to dissect it as well. The beer advocate and hophouse have it as 7.5% and 75 IBU (Boneayard site says 7% and 50 IBU?) Here is what we are thinking:

6 gal

15 lbs 2-row
1 lb C-30
Bravo- 60 min
5 min hops:
Chinook
Centennial
Simcoe
Citra

Dry hops with same 5 min hops

American Ale II yeast?

 

[theveganbrewer]

Oh sweet. They use Wyeast 1968 in most of their beers, including RPM.

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

Can't add much to the discussion other than to agree it is a very nice, tasty IPA. The Hoppy Brewer on Main Street in Gresham usually has it on tap.

 

[TimBrewz]

Thanks for the yeast info. I recognize it now it now, sort of that Laurelwood softness to the yeast. We made some headway after 2 pints each. Seems very Citra and Centennial forward-pineapple and fruit. Some pine for sure, but might be Chinook, not Simcoe?

We also were remarking how there was very little hop bite or lingering bitterness. Makes us think all late hop additions are a possibility. 15 min to 0 for all hops is a guess. If we go with only 4 hops, it would be Bravo, Citra, Centennial and Chinook-again mostly Citra and Centennial. Not really getting any "Cascade-y-ness" but could be wrong on that?

We are going to split a 12 gal wort into separate kettles and play around with the hops a bit to see which is closest, then work from there.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Thanks for the yeast info. I recognize it now it now, sort of that Laurelwood softness to the yeast. We made some headway after 2 pints each. Seems very Citra and Centennial forward-pineapple and fruit. Some pine for sure, but might be Chinook, not Simcoe?

We also were remarking how there was very little hop bite or lingering bitterness. Makes us think all late hop additions are a possibility. 15 min to 0 for all hops is a guess. If we go with only 4 hops, it would be Bravo, Citra, Centennial and Chinook-again mostly Citra and Centennial. Not really getting any "Cascade-y-ness" but could be wrong on that?

We are going to split a 12 gal wort into separate kettles and play around with the hops a bit to see which is closest, then work from there.

Ill do something similar. Not sure if there's a FWH going on or not. Could be a nice whirlpool too.

 

[TimBrewz]

Yeah, I think FWH and a whirpool are possibilities. Dextrose is an interesting possibility to get that dry with 1968, though Firestone Walker Union Jack gets quite dry without any sugar added. The Firestone mash is 145 f for 45 min. 155 for 15 min. They get really fermentable wort from this that has some dextrins left to support the hops. This is gonna be fun one to clone! Time to find a pound of Citra...

 

[theveganbrewer]

Yeah, I think FWH and a whirpool are possibilities. Dextrose is an interesting possibility to get that dry with 1968, though Firestone Walker Union Jack gets quite dry without any sugar added. The Firestone mash is 145 f for 45 min. 155 for 15 min. They get really fermentable wort from this that has some dextrins left to support the hops. This is gonna be fun one to clone! Time to find a pound of Citra...

Or two..Label Peelers has pounders and they're on sale, 21% off through today (i think, maybe tomorrow). Use code SPRINGSALE


http://labelpeelers.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=hifeinmlhrfdksuesnt1aoifg7&keyword=citra

 

[TimBrewz]

Or two..Label Peelers has pounders and they're on sale, 21% off through today (i think, maybe tomorrow). Use code SPRINGSALE


http://labelpeelers.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=hifeinmlhrfdksuesnt1aoifg7&keyword=citra

Thanks, I think I will treat myself.

 

[TimBrewz]

We got a reply from Boneyard that the 7% and 50 ibu is correct. This leads me to wonder if they're relying on brewing software for IBU calculations or if they have had the beer lab analyzed? 50 Ibu seems low, but Rogue I2PA is amazingly hoppy at 50 IBU due to massive whirlpool hops. Also, we are debating mouthfeel; is there some dextrin (carapils) and dextrose? I think maybe some dextrose only...?

What we are pretty sure about:

7%
50 IBU

2 row
Light crystal (20 or 30 L)
Citra
Centennial
Chinook
Wyeast 1968

What is likely:

Dextrose
Bravo

Maybe:

FWH
Whirlpool
Dextrin malt
Massive late hop additions
Warm(70f) ferment to bring fruitiness

Anything to add?

 

[theveganbrewer]

I can't say for sure what theyre doing but I will hit it with a big whirlpool to get that aroma.

It was 1.008-9 on my check so now we know the yeast we should be able to get it right.

 

[skibb]

Did you ask them what hops they were using? Or are they being super secretive :/

 

[theveganbrewer]

I think I did. He said it's a hop blend I think.

I blend hops like crazy for this beer ( safe for my flagship brand )

Oh, he said it's a 152 mash. This beer IMO tastes very similar to Surly Abrasive. There's a very good chance there is a large amount of Citra in there and not large portions of anything else.

 

[porky_pine]

50 IBU's doesn't really surprise me. The beer is not very bitter but very aromatic. The Citra really stands out.

 

[RainyDay]

50 IBU's doesn't really surprise me. The beer is not very bitter but very aromatic. The Citra really stands out.

Having not had the beer in a while, I agree. Plus, late additions count for almost no bitterness in regards to IBUs anyway.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I think it's got to have dextrose in it, quite a bit, and some sort of miracle to get it under 1.010. 71% is normal attenuation. Maybe a 150 mash. Not sure if he was clear on if the 152 mash was for RPM or for a Hop venom. I'd probably do 150 for RPM.

 

[TimBrewz]

1968 will get pretty dry if you pitch a lot and aerate well. I got 76% attenutation with it on an IPA I just brewed. But, yes some sugar needs to be added to get into the .10 range. 150 mash seems right if it is that dry.

 

[WikiAdam]

Very much looking forward to hearing how your experiments go. The RPM is far and away favorite IPA and I would love, LOVE to be able to get something close to it at home. A user in this thread said he asked the brewer about the recipe and couldn't get any information other than the fact that simcoe, chinook, and centennial hops are used, but it does have that citra feel to it as well.

 

[TimBrewz]

In the thread you referenced, it looks like the post is referring to Hop Venom, the IIPA.

 

[WikiAdam]

Ah, you're right.

 

[TimBrewz]

Interview with brewer:

at minute 11:00 he tells us there are 6 hops in RPM: Bravo, Centennial, Citra, Cascade, CTZ and Chinook.
He worked at Deschutes for years.
He used to work at 3 Floyds (and still close with), makers of Zombie Dust- all Citra APA/IPA. He worked at Firestone Walker too. I am seeing some inspiration for his style from these breweries, on website states that Hop venom is inspired by Double Jack from Firestone. What does it all mean? Lots of late addition hops, probably FWH, maybe 145 to 155 mash, and 1968 yeast (all the mentioned breweries use it or a similar strain).

My brew crew is finally brewing this on Sunday, doing four 6 gallon batches, each with a few tweaks. All are using 1968 from a big starter. Will post results in a few weeks.

 

[kigerbrewing]

Thanks for the video. I'm going to attempt a 3 gallon batch this weekend also. I have all those hops except for the Bravo and will be using 1968 yeast. I'm really surprised that Simcoe is not used in this.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Awesome, thanks, head brewer's always slip up at some point! He did confirm to me 152 mash temp on RPM btw.

 

[TimBrewz]

Awesome, thanks, head brewer's always slip up at some point! He did confirm to me 152 mash temp on RPM btw.

OK, so 152 it shall be. Do you think there is a bit of Munich in the malt bill?

 

[bela]

Just watched the video. Very interesting. He does say he uses 6 different hops in RPM. But I don't think he means all 6 in the same batch. Sounds to me he does a lot of mix and match. A lot of these hops you could substitute. That's just what I took out of it. Of course I could be wrong.

But his favorite beer is Busch? Wow, that set me back.

 

[TimBrewz]

Good point. Bravo and CTZ are similar as are cascade and centennial.

 

[kigerbrewing]

That makes sense after watching it again. He can always sub in one of the similar hops if he is short on one variety.

 

[TimBrewz]

Phew, this beer has been a lot of work and have not even brewed it yet. We are trying this grain bill:

Great Western Premium 2-Row - 84%
Great Western Munich (6L) - 7%
Great Western C-30 5.5%
Corn Sugar - 3.5%

And these are the basic hop schedules we are planning to try tomorrow:Going heavy on the citra and centennial, have not ironed out the exact numbers yet.

4 hops: Citra _FWH
Bravo-bittering
Citra-5 min and Whirlpool
Centennial-5 min and Whilrpool
Chinook-5 min and whirlpool
Bravo- 5 min and whirlpool

5 hops
Citra _FWH
Bravo-bittering
Citra-5 min and Whirlpool
Centennial-5 min and Whilrpool
Chinook-5 min and whirlpool
Bravo- 5 min and whirlpool
Cascade-5 min and whirlpool

6 hops

Citra _FWH
Bravo/Columbus-bittering
Citra-5 min and Whirlpool
Centennial-5 min and Whilrpool
Chinook-5 min and whirlpool
Bravo- 5 min and whirlpool
Cascade-5 min and whirlpool
Columbus-5 min and Whirlpool

 

[theveganbrewer]

What flavor is expected from the Bravo in the late additions and dryhop? It's the one hop of the bunch I have no experience with.

 

[TimBrewz]

Bravo is the wildcard. Not sure we will use it as late addition for all batches. It smells good. But never used it either. Seems the threads about Bravo show pretty good results overall as both a bittering and aroma hop.

 

[bobbrews]

The guy spent a lot of time with Deschutes. He began as a brewing engineer, so it's safe to say he learned how to actually brew at Deschutes. Use their Inversion IPA as a base example. RPM IPA is quite similar. The residual sweetness is high despite the FG being 1.012 or less. Go with British 2-row cut with half the amount of German 2-row Pils. No American 2-row. Crystal and wheat malt. 90 minute boil because of the Pils malt.

Instead of FWH, try adding the first addition at the 30 minute mark of the boil. Focus on hopbursting with no FWH or traditional bittering. Go easy on the Citra. This beer is heavy on the grapefruit & pine. I've seen it listed anywhere from 50-75 IBUs. Cascade is definitely in the dryhop. I would probably couple that with Centennial & CTZ. Use Bravo at 30. Free reign on the late boil additions, but I would only use Citra in the whirlpool for a slight backdrop of tropical fruit.

1968 will hit 84% attenuation with enough healthy cells (among other things). Tricerahops is proof and I've personally had up to 82%. Mash low, thin, and long. 150 should be good. Though if they verified 152, you will definitely need a long mash & sugar in the grist. Shoot for an OG in the mid to late 1.060s. You'll be hard pressed to hit 1.008 with 1968. Tricerahops finishes at 1.014, so 1.012 here would be more believeable.

http://hopville.com/recipe/1698545

 

[TimBrewz]

Thanks Bob. We are sticking with the grain bill; we bought the grain and have it ready to go in an hour. You may be right about the grain bill, but I am hoping with a little munich and clean mash, we will end up close for this first try.

We are doing one split off the "mother wort" with FWH, the other ones with Bravo or Columbus at 15 or 30 min(no FWH). I am basing the FWH idea on Zombie Dust, which is the most similar beer I know of to RPM. I have had good success with FWH in many other IPAs and APAs.

Good ideas on the late and dry hops and mash schedule.Sticking with 152 for 75 min. Shooting for 1.068. Adding .5 lbs or 3.5% dextrose to each kettle. Do you think this is enough sugar?

I do not expect to hit 1.008. I think 1.011-13 is more likely.

Cheers!
Tim

p.s. I feel like a detective trying to get inside the mind of an evil genius! Anyway, by this afternoon I will have beer of some sort that will add to the evidence.

 

[WikiAdam]

How's it looking so far?

 

[TimBrewz]

How's it looking so far?

Update:

Our mash temps must have climbed a bit -went with 152-but not sure thermometer was accurate?, or maybe just needed more corn sugar? Anyway, the beer finished in the 1.016 to 1.018 range. There were 4 separate fermenters of it, two of which I kept at 67f. Those finished at 1.016. The others were in other brewers' basements in the low 60s, then warmed up. They finished at 1.018. Anyway, a bit sweeter than we wanted. Regardless, it is 1968 yeast and it is not the most attenuative strain. We got 74-75% attenutation. Were hoping for 80% EDIT: We got 1.073 O.G., so overshot that a bit too. Mashing 50+ pounds of grain in 3 separate 10 gallon mash tuns was a bit tricky to dial in.

Now, the taste: It is very good-has that fruity juiciness I like about RPM. The hop flavor and aroma are also close, but not sure how close.

Dry hops per 6 gallon fermenter at end of primary for 9 days:
1 oz Citra
.5 oz Cascade
.5 oz Chinook
1 oz Centennial

The aroma is wonderful, I need to go get an RPM to compare. The color is right on.

Initially I thought there was not enough bitterness, but as it has carbed up and conditioned a bit, it seems well balanced (even with some sweetness)

So, basically I think we are not too far off the mark, but there is certainly some tweaking to do. It is a good IPA recipe as is, if we got better attenuation, it would be great. Will post some pics this weekend when it is on tap.

Cheers, Tim

 

[WikiAdam]

Awesome, glad to hear it went well overall. Looking forward to the photos!

 

[TimBrewz]

Well it's close enough to the weekend and I needed a beer. Tasty. Not quite RPM but really nice.

 

[WikiAdam]

Tim, the beer looks spot-on. Making my thirsty just looking at it!

I would love to try brewing it, or something close to it, so I'm trying to work out your recipe (I'm not the most advanced brewer, but I'm workin' on it). I think I have most of it; I'm just curious to know which hop schedule you ended up using? And what was your carbonation level?

Here's what I have so far:

Great Western Premium 2-Row - 84%
Great Western Munich (6L) - 7%
Great Western C-30 5.5%
Corn Sugar - 3.5%

Mash at 152

Hop Schedule?

Wyeast 1968 yeast

Dry hops per 6 gallon fermenter at end of primary for 9 days:
1 oz Citra
.5 oz Cascade
.5 oz Chinook
1 oz Centennial

Carbonation to ?? volumes

 

[TimBrewz]

Here are the hops for the 12 gallons I did. The other guys did variation on this.

.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
1 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
2.0 oz Centennial (10.1%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.6 oz Cascade (8.2%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
3 oz Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min

Comments from a party last night are that it is too citrusy. I have to agree. I would probably not do this exact hop schedule again. Its good, but I think there are some subtle clashing flavors in there too. Not sure which? Granted the beer is only 5 weeks old, I expect it will evolve. If you brew I would either add more sugar or mash at 150.

Carbed to 2.4 vol

 

[theveganbrewer]

Here are the hops for the 12 gallons I did. The other guys did variation on this.

.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
1 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
2.0 oz Centennial (10.1%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
1.6 oz Cascade (8.2%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
.5 oz Bravo (15.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
3 oz Citra™ (12.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min

Comments from a party last night are that it is too citrusy. I have to agree. I would probably not do this exact hop schedule again. Its good, but I think there are some subtle clashing flavors in there too. Not sure which? Granted the beer is only 5 weeks old, I expect it will evolve. If you brew I would either add more sugar or mash at 150.

Carbed to 2.4 vol

I haven't had a chance to brew this yet, but I'm going to go with something along the lines of :

0.75oz Bravo @60
1oz each of Cascade, Chinook, and Columbus @5
Whirlpool: 1 ounces each of Citra, Centennial, Simcoe,

Dry hop with 1oz of Citra, 1oz of Centennial, and 0.5 ounces of Columbus

 

[WikiAdam]

From what I've read, WLP002 English Ale Yeast is the White Labs equivalent of Wyeast 1968. However, according to White Labs' site, attenuation on WLP002 is only 63-70%. I was considering using WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast instead, which supposedly gets 70-80% attenuation. Does anyone think that would be a mistake to use this yeast?