Primary only without Air-tight Fermentation Bucket

[Rezer]

I have read that sticking to primary only is beneficial as the yeast will go back and clean up any by-products / off flavors generated during the fermentation stage.

I have also read that using a non air-tight fermentation bucket is also fine because CO2 is produced and provides a protective layer / positive differential that keeps oxygen out.

My question is, can you keep it in this bucket for the entire 3-4 weeks, more specifically during the maturity phase when the majority of the fermentation is done, without any significant downsides?

Bucket in question:

 

[cmac62]

Rezer, it may help for us to know what you are making. I'm guessing a beer and here is what I understand to answer your questions.

1. Generally if you do primary or secondary there will be enough yeast in suspension to clean up after themselves.
2. This is basically an open fermentation, and without air tight lid any O2 that gets in will mix with the other gases readily and the idea of a CO2 protective layer is a myth.
3. You can keep it in the bucket as long as you want, but remember any O2 will have a staling effect on your beer. If this is the only process I had, I would get it out of the bucket and into bottles or kegs ASAP.

I hope this is helpful

 

[Rezer]

I'm making an American Pale Ale (90% of bill is 2-row), 1.05 OG, Wyeast American Ale II, fermenting at ~62f (recommended range is 60-72).

How long do you think is too long to remain in this pail? Would you recommend I rack to a secondary I can seal?

 

[McKnuckle]

I would not keep this in an unsealed primary once active fermentation has ceased. I'm guessing that you bottle your beer vs. packaging it in a keg? If so, you do have to wait for a reliable final gravity. But I would guess that 7-10 days will be enough to produce that on a modest 1.050 beer.

You could also rack to secondary with a bit of activity remaining; just be sure to transfer some yeast over so it can finish up and condition itself before packaging.

 

[Rezer]

Funny enough, this brew I'm actually looking into switching to kegging. Is there a way this could help solve the issue (and maybe expedite my decision?).

Originally I was planning about 2 weeks in this bucket.

 

[McKnuckle]

Oh, most certainly. You don't have to worry much about precise terminal gravity if you package in a keg. It holds pressure, so a little residual fermentation is not a problem. Same thing with getting yeast in there during transfer: Unlike a bottle, where you get just one serving, a keg has many. Any sediment is typically dispensed at the very beginning, and the rest is smooth sailing. So it takes away those typical worries of the bottling process.

Kegging is just SO much more convenient and flexible in every way, once you get over the initial investment and learning curve.

 

[Rezer]

I'm sold! Are there any resources or recommendations you could provide me?

I'm also curious why the sediment is dispensed at the very beginning. I would've thought it would come with the last bit of the keg.

 

[McKnuckle]

Since the traditional dip tube feeds from the bottom, the first layer of "fresh" sediment is typically sucked up at the beginning. Of course you are right that at the very end, after clear beer is gone, an additional bit of muck makes its way to the tube as well.

Floating dip tubes are popular now, too. Those defer sediment pull until the very end, at which point it's usually a bit more since nothing has ever left the keg.

There are lots of good threads about kegging on HBT! Why not check out that sub-forum?

 

[mattdee1]

^ it's not just about pulling sediment or not; another notable benefit of the floating diptube is the fact that you can pour pretty clear beer in a pretty short amount of time because the intake of the floating diptube draws from the top where the beer is clearest.

I agree with McKnuckle on the flexibility that kegging gives you with the timing of your packaging, but for the sake of completeness, it should be mentioned that there are still reasons why one would want to keep sediment out of the keg. For example, if you ever have to move the keg (at all - even to make room for other kegs in your fridge, etc.) then you risk kicking up a bunch of that sediment and clouding up your nice clear beer. If you completely leave the keg alone for the whole time, this is not a problem of course.

 

[Rezer]

Interesting, thank you for the replies. I've been following Palmer's "How to Brew" book pretty closely. He states for a typical ale, the high-growth phase finishes in about 3-4 days. Afterwards, you need 4-8 days for maturation. This actually falls quite in line with McKnuckle's recommendation of 7-10 days.

At this point, can I transfer to a keg and be done? Do kegs need to be conditioned like a bottle? Could I transfer to a keg, slightly pressurize to make a seal, and leave at room temperature? From what I can understand from this book, after the maturation phase, if you're force carbing in a keg, it's good to go.

 

[McKnuckle]

Beer doesn't know what kind of container it's in, and always needs conditioning to be at its best. Typically that is a 2-3 week period after all fermentation and yeast clean-up is done. For us home brewers, it's most convenient to do that in the package itself, and at serving temperature. This way the beer is sealed up, removed from the vast majority of sediment, carbonated (or on its way to being so), and cold. All that remains is to drink it!

Many home brewers will cite that they allow 2-4 weeks in the primary fermenter. They'll then keg it and often force carb at high PSI to drink as soon as possible. Others will "set and forget" and allow 2 weeks to carbonate while conditioning. Everyone likes their choices, so you will always get many opinions.

Other brewers (like me) prefer to keep the beer in primary for 5-10 days, then keg it. The remaining conditioning takes place in the keg. This is similar to European brewery techniques, which rack off yeast when its job has been done, then employ an extended cold storage or "bright tank" phase before final filtering and packaging.

These are two ways to frame the same general total time period of 19-35 days** for kegged beer of average 4-6% ABV.

Bottling takes longer, because you first need 2-3 weeks at room temp to carbonate; only after that can you chill it down and cold condition it.

**19-35 days comprises 5-14 days in primary, and 14-21 days conditioning. 5 day primary is for low ABV English ales, where you want to limit yeast clean-up and preserve esters. 14 day primary is for high ABV, slow performers, beers with additives, and so on. You have to tailor it to the yeast and style.

 

[VikeMan]

I have also read that using a non air-tight fermentation bucket is also fine because CO2 is produced and provides a protective layer / positive differential that keeps oxygen out.

It's fine while CO2 (and its "wind") is being produced. Before and after that, O2 easily reaches the beer. If you believe in a CO2 "protective layer," watch this video. It demonstrates gas mixing, using Bromine gas, which is even heavier than CO2.

 

[McKnuckle]

That's a cool video. It does give some reassurance for scenarios where the CO2 exposure to air is brief, such as opening a CO2-purged keg to dump something in, then closing it right back up. The diffusion occurring in such a short time seems to be non-existent to trivial, which is counter to what some folks around here like to warn against.