3-week fermentation and then bottling....being just an urban legend?

[Elysium]

Well,in this post....I'd like to find out what people believe to be true and/or false about fermenting beer.

Obviously, there is a visible part of the fermentation for the 1st week or so...in which the yeast is actively eating the sugar away, creating CO2 and alcohol. Once that is finished, some people suggest to take the reading more or less within 3 days intervals. If the reading stays constant...then bottling/kegging is the next stage.

However.....some people argue that the beer should stay in the fermenter for 3 weeks so that the yeast could drop out of suspension and clean the beer perfectly and so that the tastes would mature.

What do you guys think?

P.S. I never transfer my beer from primary to secondary fermenter. Simply because I am lazy and I dont want the beer to be exposed to oxygen anyway.

 

[Revvy]

This is the most asked and discussed topic on here, on a daily basis there are 5 or six treads on this.

This discussion has been thoroughly covered in this thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic.

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

 

[machfive55]

I usually transfer to a keg after about a week of primary. What I have found is the beer is getting really good after 4-6 weeks in the kegerator. That said, I'm a big proponent of secondary cold conditioning. I'm doing an experiment with the latest brew I made, I'm not touching it for a couple weeks it is just going to stay in cold conditioning.

 

[jglazer]

There are a ton of heated threads on this exact topic so I wont get into it, but in short...there is an amount of time after active fermentation is done where the yeast clean up after itself. Sometimes you can bottle/transfer right after fermentation is done and it will taste the same as it would have if you left it in the fermentor for another week or two, and some beers you will notice a huge difference if you leave it in primary for an extra week or two. The hundreds of factors leading up to that point all affect the yeast, and some yeast bi products taste weird and should be cleaned up and some don't, but I am not sure there is a lot of documented research on the topic. I think some people play the "rather safe than sorry" game and some never have noticed a difference in taste when racking right after active fermentation has completed. If anyone gives you a more definitive answer than that will also lead to the argument from the other side. Good luck!

 

[Elysium]

This is the most asked and discussed topic on here, on a daily basis there are 5 or six treads on this.

This discussion has been thoroughly covered in this thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic.

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

thanks for the info...but I didnt mean "primary and/or secondary". I meant the length of time we should keep the beer in the fermenter. Some people advocate a minimum of 3 weeks...while I think 2 weeks should be more than enough if the reading is constant.

 

[Yooper]

thanks for the info...but I didnt mean "primary and/or secondary". I meant the length of time we should keep the beer in the fermenter. Some people advocate a minimum of 3 weeks...while I think 2 weeks should be more than enough if the reading is constant.

Active fermentation, if the proper amount of yeast is pitched and the proper temperature is held, tends to be over by about day 5. For the next 24-48 hours, the yeast is still active and will go back and scrounge around for less preferred fermentables, including diacetyl that they produced earlier in fermentation.

After that, the yeast will start to go dormant and fall out.

Normally, it's safe to bottle after the beer has been at FG for at least three days, as that shows fermentation is finished and the "clean up" process is done.

Leaving the beer in the fermenter longer than that isn't necessary. But there are some brewers who prefer the flavor of a longer primary, and will leave the beer 3-4 weeks in the fermenter routinely.

I don't like the flavor of the longer primary, while others prefer it. It's up to each brewer to decide for themselves if they like the flavor and clarity of more time in the fermenter on the yeast cake or not.

If you are into listening to podcasts, there is an interesting podcast that Basic Brewing Radio did on this subject about a year or so ago. They had brewers volunteer to do a short primary and a long primary and taste test the results. Some brewers preferred the results of the shorter primary, while others preferred the longer primary. It really is personal preference.

What bothers me is when some brewers say, "you should leave your beer in the primary for 3 weeks, minimum" as that simply isn't true. You certainly can do that, and may like the results. But it's not necessary, and I don't think a majority of brewers subscribe to that thinking.

 

[Malty_Dog]

I appreciate that straight talk, Yooper. I imagine the actual beer that's been brewed plays a huge role in this as well. I haven't brewed anything over 1.070 OG and things have gone great with 2 and 3 week primaries. The 2 week beers are just as good IMO as the 3 week beers. And they all seem to just get a little better in the bottles.

 

[DPBISME]

I just brewed that Centennial Blond/Golden that seems so popular here because I had loads of ingredients and such.

I served in yesterday 14 days after I brewed it and for a recent Real Ale party one member brewed a English Mild/Northern Brown just the week prior…

So I think it depends on the style and the ABV more than anything….

DPB

 

[GrogNerd]

beer should stay in the fermenter for 3 weeks so that the yeast could drop out of suspension and clean the beer perfectly and so that the tastes would mature.

I leave mine in for 3 weeks. by that time I know it's done fermenting and clearing & I won't have to worry about bottle bombs, so I take FG reading and bottle

but SHOULD? no

it CAN, but don't think it SHOULD

 

[smizak]

I routinely bottle lagers after 9-10 days. About a week for primary fermentation, couple day cold crash, bottle.

HOWEVER, I don't like to serve it until it's dropped crystal clear in the bottle. That adds about a week for carbing up, at least a week in the fridge before they start to drop clear.

So a little more than three weeks on a lager from grain to glass for me. Ales subtract a week.

I personally don't recommend you leave a hop-forward ale in primary any longer than absolutely necessary. The best aroma my hop-forward styles have is when I take a final gravity reading. You want to drink those ultra fresh.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

I routinely bottle lagers after 9-10 days. About a week for primary fermentation, couple day cold crash, bottle.

HOWEVER, I don't like to serve it until it's dropped crystal clear in the bottle. That adds about a week for carbing up, at least a week in the fridge before they start to drop clear.

So a little more than three weeks on a lager from grain to glass for me. Ales subtract a week.

I personally don't recommend you leave a hop-forward ale in primary any longer than absolutely necessary. The best aroma my hop-forward styles have is when I take a final gravity reading. You want to drink those ultra fresh.

Lager 3 weeks grain to glass?! Ales 2 WEEKS?! I know it could be done but you dont experience any off flavors fermenting, crashing and bottling so quick??
My low OG ales take atleast 4 and anything with a decent sized grain bill are atleast 6. My thoughts are that lagers had to be....lagered for a long period of time??

Im one of those what do you mean gravity stayed same for 3 days?? I leave them in primary for 2-3 weeks and if i hit my target or a point above i give the thumbs up. While not the best approach ive never had a yeast not floc or attenuate because of it. I WILL take readings and calculate ABV but im not about checking every 24 hours after "activity" has stopped.
Pulled a couple batches "early" off my 2 week standard and just was not happy with the results. (ie. diactyl, not floc'd, under attenuated)

 

[dstranger99]

Long ago I let mine sit in primary for at least a month, now I rack to secondary after 7 days, and bottle on or around day 10.......It's just silly to let an average beer sit there for a month.

 

[nickmv]

I brewed an IPA exactly 1 week ago, and it's been on dry hops since 80 hours (~ 3 days) after pitch. Cold crashed starting yesterday, and will hold for 7-10 days @ 33F, then keg and drink.

It will be delicious, and clear as can be.

 

[woozy]

Normally, it's safe to bottle after the beer has been at FG for at least three days, as that shows fermentation is finished and the "clean up" process is done.

Leaving the beer in the fermenter longer than that isn't necessary. But there are some brewers who prefer the flavor of a longer primary, and will leave the beer 3-4 weeks in the fermenter routinely.

If the "clean up" process is done, then what is that occurs in the longer primary that would affect the flavor?

 

[GrogNerd]

If the "clean up" process is done, then what is that occurs in the longer primary that would affect the flavor?

Autolysis

not so much on the homebrew scale, it is a problem for commercial brewers

 

[unionrdr]

I usually take a gravity reading at 2 weeks. If it needs a couple points knocked off,I give it a few more days then check it again. If it's in range,& it's cleared up decent,I bottle it. I don't like to take any longer than necessary.

 

[smizak]

Lager 3 weeks grain to glass?! Ales 2 WEEKS?! I know it could be done but you dont experience any off flavors fermenting, crashing and bottling so quick??

No off flavors. Lot's of competition medals.

My technique REQUIRES proper pitch of healthy yeast, temperature control and oxygen. A beer pitched with too little yeast, too little oxygen, fermenting in too cold or too hot a temperature may take more than two weeks and still have off flavors.

 

[KepowOb]

No off flavors. Lot's of competition medals.

My technique REQUIRES proper pitch of healthy yeast, temperature control and oxygen. A beer pitched with too little yeast, too little oxygen, fermenting in too cold or too hot a temperature may take more than two weeks and still have off flavors.

I'm very new to all this, but I was always under the impression that the colder fermenting temperatures for lagers cause the process to be much slower than fermenting an ale (moreso than just 1 week). Do you go a bit warmer than the "standard" temps, or was it just through a lot of trial that you figured out you could manage to go that quickly, or of course something else entirely?

 

[unionrdr]

I understand that fermenting lagers at those cooler temps takes a lot more yeast to ferment in a time frame like that.

 

[Elysium]

No off flavors. Lot's of competition medals.

My technique REQUIRES proper pitch of healthy yeast, temperature control and oxygen. A beer pitched with too little yeast, too little oxygen, fermenting in too cold or too hot a temperature may take more than two weeks and still have off flavors.

I am using safale S0-4...and on the website they list 59-68 F as perfect fermenting temperature and even in that range I aim at the lower 59 so that no extra ester would be produced. Would you say that your technique differs in a lot? I'd like to be able to ferment and server my ales in about 3-4 weeks time with bottle conditioning...so I am looking for ways to improve my technique.

 

[smizak]

I'm very new to all this, but I was always under the impression that the colder fermenting temperatures for lagers cause the process to be much slower than fermenting an ale (moreso than just 1 week). Do you go a bit warmer than the "standard" temps, or was it just through a lot of trial that you figured out you could manage to go that quickly, or of course something else entirely?

This.

I understand that fermenting lagers at those cooler temps takes a lot more yeast to ferment in a time frame like that.

It usually takes 1 or 2 days longer than my ales and I beginning slowly elevating the temperature up to about 65F from 54F after the ferment begins to slow. Crash the yeast and bottle as per any ale. There really isn't much difference between the way I handle lager and ale fermentations. Just temperature and pitch rate really.

 

[smizak]

I am using safale S0-4...and on the website they list 59-68 F as perfect fermenting temperature and even in that range I aim at the lower 59 so that no extra ester would be produced. Would you say that your technique differs in a lot? I'd like to be able to ferment and server my ales in about 3-4 weeks time with bottle conditioning...so I am looking for ways to improve my technique.

Your fermentation might take a little longer. S-04 is pretty fast though, even at lower temps. It takes off and then drops like a rock suddenly, leaves a little residual sweetness. At least in my experience anyway....matter of fact, S-04 is a yeast I would pick to get a quick beer turned over. Flocculates really well, leaves a clear beer.

I don't like to get caught up in exact time frames. But if you have a stable gravity reading and the beer is clear, why leave it in primary. Get to drinking.

 

[Elysium]

Your fermentation might take a little longer. S-04 is pretty fast though, even at lower temps. It takes off and then drops like a rock suddenly, leaves a little residual sweetness. At least in my experience anyway....matter of fact, S-04 is a yeast I would pick to get a quick beer turned over. Flocculates really well, leaves a clear beer.

I don't like to get caught up in exact time frames. But if you have a stable gravity reading and the beer is clear, why leave it in primary. Get to drinking.

Well, I am still trying to understand how things work....but I made a 40 IBU beer (with OG 1.056) and it has a rather hoppy "twang" to it. Which will definitely mellow but for that reason I need the bottle conditioning. Dont you agree?

 

[WiseEyes]

Friday Night I was drinking a 14 day old bottle conditioned Pale Ale 4 days primary 10 in the bottle, It was better Yesterday than it was Friday and I am sure it will be better a week from now but the point I am making is that it is good beer at 14 days old and completely drinkable.

My thoughts on bright (secondary) fermentors is that if your initial process is good and you don't disturb the trub layer you can rack from primary to keg or bottling bucket and get a very clear beer.

 

[isleofman]

I can get an ale into the bottle in 10-14 days including a 5 day cold crash with gelatin:
Around 1.055 OG
Plenty Of 02
Proper Pitch Rate
Temp Control (Inluding a way to warm the fermenter for a 24 - 36 hour D rest)

Three weeks primary for an average OG ale is just overkill.

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

I leave most of my beers in primary two to three weeks because I can and because I like the way it tastes when I do. I generally ferment in the low 60s and end up with a very clean fermentation and a compact yeast cake that makes it a snap to rack to keg or bottling bucket. It works for me. I've got a couple of kegs in the fridge on tap, a couple of full kegs in reserve, cases with full bottles in my brew room and usually 10 to 25 gallons fermenting at any time (currently 15) - I don't need a beer I can drink in 10 days or 14 days or even 21 days.

I have no problem with someone saying its okay to bottle at am average OG ale at 10 -14 days, I've done it, but leaving it another week if you want is not really overkill. Bottling after 4 days in primary though?

 

[Braufessor]

Personally - I am generally a three week primary, no secondary guy. If I dry hop, I throw them in after 10-18 days or so - right in the primary. I have kegged a few days earlier/later than 21 days. I do this for a couple reasons.
#1 - I brew a lot, and am rarely in a hurry to get a beer on tap
#2 - I know fermentation is done at this point and don't mess with gravity readings
#3 - Habit/success

#3 is probably the main reason...... just the way I have been doing things over the past several years and it has worked out well.

That said, I have had many beers from brewers who go the 7-10 day route from grain to glass - and many of those beers were absolutely great. Some much better than anything I have brewed. So, to say you HAVE TO go with 3 weeks is simply incorrect. More than one way to get great beer.

However, those people that make great beer on 7-10 days are generally pretty experienced and know what they are doing - yeast starters, healthy yeast, high pitch, temp. control, good sanitation, etc., etc. For beginners, I firmly believe the best strategy is simply to go with a 3 week primary and then move to keg or bottling bucket and bottle. It reduces steps, it alleviates the "do you think it is done - should I transfer it" questions. Just a good overall strategy to start with. Too often beginners shoot for the minimum time limits and the maximum temperatures with the minimum yeast and get poor to mediocre results.

Most of the time, to brew on the limits of time, temperature, etc. - you need to have a firm knowledge of what you are doing and why you are doing it.

 

[WiseEyes]

However, those people that make great beer on 7-10 days are generally pretty experienced and know what they are doing - yeast starters, healthy yeast, high pitch, temp. control, good sanitation, etc., etc. For beginners, I firmly believe the best strategy is simply to go with a 3 week primary and then move to keg or bottling bucket and bottle. It reduces steps, it alleviates the "do you think it is done - should I transfer it" questions. Just a good overall strategy to start with. Too often beginners shoot for the minimum time limits and the maximum temperatures with the minimum yeast and get poor to mediocre results.


I think that is the real reason so many say 3 weeks primary. Someone inexperienced ends up constantly checking, opening closing, taking samples and that increases there chances that they are going to get an infection. I also think the vast majority of people brewing beer fail to pitch the correct amount of Healthy yeast which leads to longer lag times and a longer than would have been necessary fermentation. Many also lack temperature control and that leads to off flavors that need to be aged out.

 

[Yooper]

I think that is the real reason so many say 3 weeks primary. Someone inexperienced ends up constantly checking, opening closing, taking samples and that increases there chances that they are going to get an infection. I also think the vast majority of people brewing beer fail to pitch the correct amount of Healthy yeast which leads to longer lag times and a longer than would have been necessary fermentation. Many also lack temperature control and that leads to off flavors that need to be aged out.

Yes, that is probably true.

But then what happens in a forum like this is that someone who has done this, and their beer is drinkable posts something like "it's good practice to keep your beer in primary for at least a month!" and then we end up in these discussions on why that's not necessarily good advice.

When I started brewing a million years ago, the prevailing wisdom was "Get your beer off of the yeast cake ASAP!!!!!". As a winemaker, that made sense to me.

We then seemed to go the other way with "Leave your beer in the fermenter for a month or your beer will suck".

I say that both approaches are incorrect, and most people who can brew beer can understand the need for proper pitching rates and temperature and so it's worth it to try to explain proper brewing techniques.

 

[ObsidianJester]

I'm still pretty new to this but I can state that so far my better beers have just been left the hell alone other than to toss in a sack of dry hops for dry hopping a week before I bottle. I attribute this to lots of learning, reading and research.

I ferment now in the low 60s. 62 is average for my ales. I bottle now religiously after two weeks and let them just hang out for another two weeks. I could go sooner to tasting but I generally have lots of beer around so I'm in no rush. Also it seems to taste a bit better that way to me. So Four weeks turn around with an average ale is not to bad and I'm not even pushing the envelope at all.

Things that I do, I make a yeast starter for every batch (Typically though with these four week beers I would not have to as they are all pretty average session style beers. Nothing over 6%.)

I also leave the beer the hell alone. I could be very scientific and take readings every day after I see the bubbles stop but you know what? I get some tasty darn beer just letting the yeast do their thing and going with two weeks gives them enough time to clean up anything lingering and properly ferment out.

Reasons I would do a secondary, is to make primary fermentation space. (I have two five gallon carboys for secondary fermentation and the reliable 6.5 gallon bucket for primaries)

If Im aging a beer. Big beers, barely wine, Scotch, Imperial Stouts and things like that. If the beer will be on the yeast cake for more than a month I would move it based again off what I judge to be the reliable info out there.

Three weeks from pitching yeast to drinking? I would think that is very possible with out even an effort. The bigger breweries turn around much of their ales that fast.