Fried my SSR

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Fizzycist

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This was my second time using my newly constructed system; the testing and first brew session all went great. The SSR had felt warm before, but nothing that made me too worried.This time around though, I was heating my strike water, operating at 100% cycle time for maybe 20 minutes, when I heard a pop and saw the magic smoke escaping from my box. I shut off the power and opened it up and found a massacre. Black smoke and wispy, burnt plastic looking crap all over and my SSR about popped open.

So now I gotta ask, is it because the heat sink was inside the box instead of sticking out? I thought it was strange, but that seemed the only way to mount it. When I rebuild should I add a fan? Or just stick the heat sinks out?

I was so pissed I could barely speak. But I guess it's better to fry before I even dough in than halfway through my boil.

IMG_6421.jpg


IMG_6424.jpg
 
Ouch! Did you use thermal paste between the ssr and the heat sink? The heat sink should be mounted outside the panel.
 
Well, the SSR and the heat sink came already attached, I didn't even try to separate them, I just assumed they had the thermal paste already.
 
Fizzycist said:
Well, the SSR and the heat sink came already attached, I didn't even try to separate them, I just assumed they had the thermal paste already.
Click to expand...

In all likelihood they had no paste between them. That, combined with the heat sink being inside the box (underneath the SSR??), kept the heat from escaping.
 
ok I am not a pro by any means, but what power do you have coming into the SSR as by the pictures it looks as if you have a jumper wire going from the 220 VAC side of the right SSR to the DC control side of the other SSR. double check that the SSR is being controlled by the PID.
 
Topdawg2881 said:
ok I am not a pro by any means, but what power do you have coming into the SSR as by the pictures it looks as if you have a jumper wire going from the 220 VAC side of the right SSR to the DC control side of the other SSR. double check that the SSR is being controlled by the PID.
Click to expand...

No, it's just an illusion of the photo. The power input to the both SSRs comes from one (each) of the relays on the right.
 
I agree that it looks like they're wired wrong, but if it's an optical illusion and you're positive that they're good then no worries there.

Definitely want to confirm if there's paste between the SSR and the Heat Sink. Also - small plastic box (not a lot of air, good insulation in the walls) means that the heat sink isn't really doing anything - eventually it warms the air up inside the box and then there's no place for the heat to go. If you run internal heat sinks, you definitely want to put a fan and vent in to draw fresh air in and push hot air out. Or, mount the heat sink externally and don't worry about that. I'm not sure if the amount of heat the SSR put out could cause it to fail as pictured, but I'd wager that it was a contributing factor.

-Kevin
 
I'd agree with that, it could have been a dud SSR but the heat is likely to be an issue going forward as well.
 
Not sure how much it would help with the heat issue but, you could use just one SSR to control your heating element since that is all that is "required".
 
have you tested your element yet? I would put an ohm meter on it and check its resistance before firing back up.
 
I have my SSR and heatsink mounted internally and with no case venting and I have had no issues with overheating (I agree it is not the best solution but it is also not an instant fail). I have oversized my SSR 2x (at least).
What is your SSR rating and what load are you driving?
 
First of all, thanks for all the responses. My build used many of the same components as a kal-clone (5500 w elements, 40 amp SSRs), I just slimmed it down a little and was building it in phases. I haven't checked the resistivity of the heater element; what should I expect? I have two SSRs for the two elements that I will eventually have (HLT and BK) although right now I only have a plug for the BK. The control circuits for the SSRs are a switched output from the PID (that way I only had to buy 1). I considered adding a fan, would that be preferable to moving the heat sinks out, or would doing both be more effective (or overkill)?
 
Looking for around 9.6 ohms if it is a 5500W 230V element. Where did you get the SSR from, just cause I saw another thread were what was labeled a 40A was actually more likely a 25A.
 
Fizzycist said:
Ah, BigFloyd, you were right. Just started taking it apart and those dirty little buggers didn't put any thermal paste between the SSR and the heat sink.

This is the SSR + heat sink I got
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843IUG6/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i06?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Click to expand...

I would be sceptical that that was the main reason. Something just doesn't add up to me. Was the SSR a reputable brand from a reputable vendor? I wouldn't write of bad luck of getting a dud SSR. Looking at that amazon listing has a few alarm bells - listed as Amico brand but picture is Fotek! Can't find any references of Amico for electronic suppliers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fotek SSRs are Taiwanese and usually fine. Amico is aka Uxcell who are one of many far East based electronics resellers.
 
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't remember where I read it, but many of the "Fotek" SSR's that you buy online are knock-offs, are are therefore of sub-par quality.
 
machfive55 said:
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't remember where I read it, but many of the "Fotek" SSR's that you buy online are knock-offs, are are therefore of sub-par quality.
Click to expand...

You mean $5 isn't the going rate for a quality SSR? Well, if mine ever arrives from HK (it's been 16 days so far) I'll have to keep an eye on it. :)
 
alien said:
Fotek SSRs are Taiwanese and usually fine. Amico is aka Uxcell who are one of many far East based electronics resellers.
Click to expand...

machfive55 said:
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't remember where I read it, but many of the "Fotek" SSR's that you buy online are knock-offs, are are therefore of sub-par quality.
Click to expand...

SilverZero said:
You mean $5 isn't the going rate for a quality SSR? Well, if mine ever arrives from HK (it's been 16 days so far) I'll have to keep an eye on it. :)
Click to expand...

All the point of my post. You don't actually know the quality of the SSR you got and could have just lucked out in getting the crap one!
 
I honestly don't think anyone would bother knocking off a Fotek, it's not like they sell for big bucks. Look up on the Fotek website and you will find a datasheet that tells you pretty much everything you need to know about their specs and quality. It's an interesting exercise to compare to the datasheet that of, say, an Auber branded SSR, and then look at the price difference.
 
There is some pretty uninformed discussion on that thread. e.g. "A properly rated SSR needs neither heatsink or extra ventilation". I'm with the guy who said "BTW I only use Fotek SSRs".

The kind of components that regularly get counterfeited and should not be bought from Hong Kong are high priced specialist ICs like microcontrollers, not cheap power components that are almost all made in the Far East anyway.
 
I actually cut a hole in my toolbox and mounted a small CPU cooler fan. (Pirated a 12V AC/DC converter plug and connected it directly to the fan.) I have holes on the other side of the enclosure with stainless steel plates with holes in them to allow airflow through the box.

I haven't mounted a heatsink on the heating element SSR yet (I have one coming in the mail probably sometime this week.) but haven't had any issues yet. That fan makes it downright cool inside the box.
Click to expand...

EDIT: I was wrong. The SSR did fine with my 3500w HLT element. However when I plugged my 5500w BK element into it, the thing became very very warm after about 10 minutes. I could smell trouble and when I opened the box I could see the plastic on the side of the SSR just beginning to warp.

I'm installing a heatsink with thermal compound this evening.
 
alien said:
There is some pretty uninformed discussion on that thread. e.g. "A properly rated SSR needs neither heatsink or extra ventilation". I'm with the guy who said "BTW I only use Fotek SSRs".
Click to expand...
I am one of the ones that said "I don't think the only issue was the lack of external heatsink / case cooling" (slightly differnt to saying "nah it should be fine". It comes down to horses for coarses - one SSR with an internally mounted DIN heatsink in a big box will likely end with no issues / 10 SSR packed side by side in a tiny case you going to likely smoke them.
The kind of components that regularly get counterfeited and should not be bought from Hong Kong are high priced specialist ICs like microcontrollers, not cheap power components that are almost all made in the Far East anyway.
Click to expand...

But what happens to those that don't pass the higher QC requirements of industry but yet should still be good (as long as it is not critical that they keep running, e.g. a home brewery)?
 
mattd2 said:
But what happens to those that don't pass the higher QC requirements of industry but yet should still be good (as long as it is not critical that they keep running, e.g. a home brewery)?
Click to expand...

I have heard of high value, hard-to-manufacture components being diverted in this way. SD cards are particularly notorious. But SSRs are cheap and easy to make.
 
On ebay a 40A Fotek is US$4 shipped. They are 8 RMB (US$1.30) at Taobao. Everything is expensive at RS.
 
That is my point:
Ebay - who knows what you are actually getting, no accountability = don't care if they sell ****
RS - Some accountability if what they sell ends up hurting/killing someone = take the time to make sure they sell quality
 
Thanks for sharing your concerns about my health/life. But I live a knife edge existence, am a heedless risk taker, and if my $4 Fotek burns out I'll probably buy another $4 "Fotek", or whatever the hell it actually turns out to be, from some faceless and possibly criminal entity in Asia, even if it kills me.
 
That was some high quality sarcasm right there alien. Anyway, I've order a replacement, thermal paste, and a fan, so life will be good shortly. Thanks for all the help guys.
 
alien said:
Thanks for sharing your concerns about my health/life. But I live a knife edge existence, am a heedless risk taker, and if my $4 Fotek burns out I'll probably buy another $4 "Fotek", or whatever the hell it actually turns out to be, from some faceless and possibly criminal entity in Asia, even if it kills me.
Click to expand...

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh... you keep taking the oposite of my post :D
All I am saying is if you pay $4 for an SSR, expect that it may crap out on you,when it "shouldn't", and for no aparent reason. Hell even buying 2 so you have one as spare when you need it is still a better idea that paying the likes of RS much more $$ for potentially the same SSR in my books.
 

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