Plumbing in cleaning water

[thekraken]

For those that have done it how did you plumb in fresh water from the house to flush your systems for cleaning?

Changing hoses, rinsing, dumping, repeat 100 different times gets old fast. I'm trying to come up with a manifold of sorts to rinse out my CFC, pump, tubing after brew day quickly and efficiently. I guess the most important part is I properly back flash the CFC.

I'm thinking a little PEX system that accepts input water from a water hose.

What have you guys done?

 

[ancientmariner52]

For those that have done it how did you plumb in fresh water from the house to flush your systems for cleaning?

Changing hoses, rinsing, dumping, repeat 100 different times gets old fast. I'm trying to come up with a manifold of sorts to rinse out my CFC, pump, tubing after brew day quickly and efficiently. I guess the most important part is I properly back flash the CFC.

I'm thinking a little PEX system that accepts input water from a water hose.

What have you guys done?

I assembled a hose thread to camlock adapter for this purpose.

 

[thekraken]

Ever bursted your silicon tubes with the hose pressure?

 

[ancientmariner52]

No problem (yet). My line pressure is about 40 psig, but it's an open system, so no back pressure to speak of. We are blessed with an abundance of water here, so I just let the outflow run out on the grass. When it runs clear for a few minutes, I call it done.

 

[day_trippr]

I assembled a hose thread to camlock adapter for this purpose.

Same here, actually two with reversed GHT genders so I can run a drain hose out to the yard instead of dumping everything in my septic tank.
My well pressure runs between 35 and 55 psi - plenty enough to bulge and burst my 1/2" silicone hoses (bt/dt - twice) - so I do need to be cautious when flushing out my rig...

Cheers!

 

[thekraken]

That's what I was afraid of. What precautions do you take? Is double checking that valves are open sufficient? Or must one open valves slowly too? That would make burst flushing the chiller difficult..

 

[day_trippr]

It pretty much comes down to making sure I don't screw up

I have a shutoff valve on the end of my RV hose that I thread a GHT/female camlock adapter to and make sure not to open that until everything downstream of the connection is open. If there's a pump in the path I get the flow running then power up the pump to get the impeller thrashing and hopefully knock anything stuck to it loose.

Every few brews I do a full CIP with hot PBW and that fries anything that might have been left behind...

Cheers!

[edit] I do believe I'm not "too binary" when turning on the hose end valve, so yeah, I sneak up on it and rarely use more than half the supply hose capacity.

 

[helterscelter]

Ever bursted your silicon tubes with the hose pressure?

yep! guilty.. you have to ensure the silicone hoses aren't restricted in any way.. or you're gonna get wet!

 

[thekraken]

TIL the problem we're dealing with is called water hammer! ... randomly came across this today, thought I'd share:

 

[day_trippr]

Yes, water hammer is a thing, but this is simply the supply pressure exceeding working pressure rating. No hammering required

The typical 1/2" ID/3/4" OD unreinforced silicone tubing has a room temperature working pressure rating of just 10 psi and a burst rating of just 30 psi at the same temperature. And both go down with increasing temperature...

Cheers!

 

[ancientmariner52]

Yes, water hammer is a thing, but this is simply the supply pressure exceeding working pressure rating. No hammering required

The typical 1/2" ID/3/4" OD unreinforced silicone tubing has a room temperature working pressure rating of just 10 psi and a burst rating of just 30 psi at the same temperature. And both go down with increasing temperature...

Cheers!

Ball valves are great from a sanitation aspect, but they are garbage for throttling. I use globe valves for clean water, such as filling the HLT and flushing the CFC. Makes my life easier.

 

[thekraken]

This globe valve something you can pick up at home depot?

 

[ancientmariner52]

This globe valve something you can pick up at home depot?

They used to be available everywhere, but I had to get my last one from Amazon. Still inexpensive, since you don't need stainless for cold tap water, just lead-free bronze or brass. Internally, they are the same as a water heater drain or a garden hose spigot, just configured with pipe thread at both ends.

 

[ancientmariner52]

This

 

[thekraken]

Thanks. I'll need something with garden hose fittings, the cfc has gh fittings installed. I'll poke around the hardware store and see what I can come up with.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have a barbed attachment on my hose and spare quick release connector

 

[passedpawn]

TIL the problem we're dealing with is called water hammer! ... randomly came across this today, thought I'd share:

I was a fireman a long time ago. Water hammer was a big thing, and why we closed the valve at the end of hoses slowly.

 

[schematix]

What have you guys done?

Put in a Tee off my main hot water line. Sweated some copper pipes. Put a threaded fitting at the end.

I put female cam locks on *all* my hoses and males on all the equipment. I also have an assortment of male-male, female-female, and male-female pieces i can use for creating just about any connection.

Ball valves are great from a sanitation aspect, but they are garbage for throttling.

Ball valves are actually terrible from a sanitation perspective. They have a a large cavity on either side of the ball that when partially open becomes part of the flow path. Virtually impossible to clean without taking apart. Best sanitary valve is a butterfly, but it's useless for flow control. If you need flow control you want a diaphram or pinch valve.

TIL the problem we're dealing with is called water hammer! ... randomly came across this today, thought I'd share:

Cool video but i don't see how that applies here. Normally an issue in your house when you have things with solenoid valves. Best example is your washing machine. My garden watering timer is even more extremely.

 

[thekraken]

Put in a Tee off my main hot water line. Sweated some copper pipes. Put a threaded fitting at the end.

I put female cam locks on *all* my hoses and males on all the equipment. I also have an assortment of male-male, female-female, and male-female pieces i can use for creating just about any connection.



Ball valves are actually terrible from a sanitation perspective. They have a a large cavity on either side of the ball that when partially open becomes part of the flow path. Virtually impossible to clean without taking apart. Best sanitary valve is a butterfly, but it's useless for flow control. If you need flow control you want a diaphram or pinch valve.



Cool video but i don't see how that applies here. Normally an issue in your house when you have things with solenoid valves. Best example is your washing machine. My garden watering timer is even more extremely.

The bit about water hammer was in regard to the discussion about bursting silicon hoses when plumbing into our systems.

I've certainly experienced the "knocking" it in my system and it never really occurred to me what it was.

 

[schematix]

The bit about water hammer was in regard to the discussion about bursting silicon hoses when plumbing into our systems.

I've certainly experienced the "knocking" it in my system and it never really occurred to me what it was.

That isn't hammer. Hammer is when a large mass of liquid moving in a pipe is suddenly stopped and a pressure wave traverses back and forth in the pipe.

The hose bursting is simply over pressurizing.

Silicone hoses are fine as long as you don't dead head them. Then they will balloon, unless you buy the kind with reinforced braiding.

 

[thekraken]

That isn't hammer. Hammer is when a large mass of liquid moving in a pipe is suddenly stopped and a pressure wave traverses back and forth in the pipe.

The hose bursting is simply over pressurizing.

Silicone hoses are fine as long as you don't dead head them. Then they will balloon, unless you buy the kind with reinforced braiding.

The pressure wave is what I'm referring to

 

[schematix]

the wave is only generated when the mass of water stop flowing rapidly. that only happens when a valve closes quickly. The only way to do that is with a solenoid. Anything hand actuated is slow enough to decelerate the water.

Again, nothing to do with the hose ballooning. That's just raw water pressure.

 

[thekraken]

Dude, why are you arguing? So the movement and knocking in the linked video induced with a ball valve is not water hammering?

 

[day_trippr]

I do believe everyone agrees with what water hammer is, it just isn't pertinent to blowing up silicone hoses by simply exposing them to excess water pressure...

Cheers!

 

[schematix]

I'm not arguing. I'm pointing out water hammer is not relevant to the OP, any of the replies, or home brewing in general unless automation is involved.

 

[thekraken]

Excuse me, boss. It's my thread, I'll decide what is or isn't relevant



But in all seriousness I'm talking about 300 psi pressure spikes and plumbing this into the brew stand, and back flushing the cfc... seems relevant. I once busted a (defective) gh fitting during a back flushing cycle, didn't realize the term for it or forces involved until now. I suppose it's something one is kind of intuitively aware of but I never gave it much more thought than that till now. As I said previously "TIL", just thought I'd share.

 

[schematix]

If you really do have issues with hammer perhaps you should plumb in a hammer arrestor?

Water hammer rarely causes an issue with the pipe itself. Its usually the fittings that fail.

Here's one of my all time favorites from work. City water at 100 psi. 2" pipe. Automated ball valve. The pipe shook like a mthfckr when the valve was closed. The pipe shot right out of the shutoff valve. Indoor rain storm that day.

EDIT: Looks like the Tapatalk edit bug has struck again. Picture in next post.

 

[schematix]