First batch "done" need advice

[BenjiEDF]

I have a batch of cider that should be nearing completion. It began as 1 gallon of 365 Organic apple cider that comes from the store in a 1 gallon carboy.

I added 1 cup of corn sugar, some peptic enzyme, yeast nutrient shook the heck out of it then waited an hour and pitched half a packet of Red Star Champagne yeast.

At day 10 I didn't see anymore activity at all. Day 12 I racked it into another 1 gallon carboy and put an airlock on it just in case. After 1 week in there I racked again into 4 1L bottles with clamp style stoppers. I added 1/2 tsp of sugar in 2 of them and the other 2 I wanted to be still cider. It's been about a week.

Ok so I planned to drink one of them yesterday and the cider smells really good but has a slightly sour and soapy taste somewhat raspy, it's hard to describe? Not terrible but certainly not delicious. Did I do anything wrong? I took a sip almost 2 weeks ago and there was still active yeast in there because it made me slightly nauseous (oops) but that didn't happen this tasting.

The cider is very clear and there is just a tiny bit of white sediment at the bottom of the bottle (nothing floating). I'm not sure if that's yeast or undisolved priming sugar. Does the taste smooth out and get better over time?

I'd rather do a recipe with a quicker turn around so I can drink more often. In the future would it be better if I don't add any sugar at all? I don't want to make wine and I'm not very patient... just want something simple like a Woodchuck Cider. Store bought six packs are almost $10 around here! I want to get a good simple recipe for a better cost. I didn't take the hydrometer readings unfortunately but the stuff is pretty strong probably around 10% would be my guess after a small sampling my face started to get warm haha. I don't need it that strong. Most information I've read is that higher gravity mixtures take much longer to condition.

One more new guy question: how do I know if I have an infection in the batch or if it just needs more aging to mellow out?

 

[likafox]

I might not be much help but ill tell you what i did for my first cider. I used a gallon of storebought cider and added one and a half cups of brown sugar to it. I used a wyeast smack pack meant for cider. I kept thinking it wasnt fermenting, but after I tested the gravity it turned out to be pretty much done at 7%. Its just perfect, not to sugary and not too dry. I waited a good month before I realized it was done. Mine had a vinager-like taste/smell. But after the longer I had it the more that dissipated. So I would definetely let it age a little bit. Cant hurt.

 

[BenjiEDF]

Thank you for your response likafox, anything is helpful. It might be just as simple as the original apple juice I selected wasn't a good choice, I don't know. I have a second batch in the works now with just treetop and champagne yeast. I'm doing one batch as simple as possible to rule out other variables. 365 Organic comes from the store cloudy with lots of sediment already, I'm sure someone with more experience than myself could work their magic on it.

 

[Sewer_Urchen]

Your culprit is more the yeast you choose rather than the type of juice. The Champagne yeasts will ferment VERY dry, especially with the low OG you're brewing. If you're looking for something more like store bought cider you can go with an ale yeast...say you want it to be just a little sweet, US-04 Safeale yeast will leave some residual sweetness and tear through that juice in a week; and for the cider you're brewing a lot of brewers here recommend Notingham yeast. Either way, if you're not looking to brew wine, why are you using wine yeasts?

your racking process looks fine, your brewing process looks fine, I'd just experiment with some lower attenuation yeasts.

Good luck!

 

[BenjiEDF]

Thanks Sewer Urchen, I'll try a different yeast then. I chose wine yeast for no other reason other than it was recommended to me at the local homebrew shop. I'll read up on the yeasts that you recommended.

 

[tokerlund]

Personally, I like cider simple. I use Sams or Costo or Walmart apple juice. I don't add any sugar. The OG is generally around 1.050, so I get a decent wallop out of it at about 6-8%. I like it dry so I use champagne yeast, or sometimes an ale yeast. The low AVB also lets me ferment, bottle/keg and drink within 6-8 weeks, less if I am thirsty, more if I have plenty of beer on tap already.

 

[likafox]

I think its fine if you use champagne yeast, actually it seems like most will recommend it. But it will ferment dry so if you want sweetness youll have to compensate by back-sweetening. An ale yeast might be easier in the long run though because you dont have the extra step.

 

[BenjiEDF]

So what do I do to "backsweeten" it? Just mix in splenda right before I drink it haha.
So can the cider age in bulk in the carboy? Or do I really have to bottle it? (still cider).

 

[Sewer_Urchen]

You can, of course, bulk age it...in fact it ages better in bulk...but it sounds like you're looking for a recipe that doesn't need much aging, that's why I recommend a different yeast. Champagne yeast is fine, in fact it's all I use...but I don't bottle until it's over 6 months old...and then don't drink for another 6 months...

To back sweeten AND have a sparkling cider is tricky...it's much easier to sparkle it dry...you can use splenda but that will cause more brewers to cringe than recommending pasteurizing. Most here will refer you to the sticky at the top of the cider forum that shows how to pasteurize the cider once it's sparkled enough, but as a brand newbie I don't know if it's the best place to start. I'd just start with a batch of dry sparkling and go fro a sweeter sparkling after a batch or two when you're more comfortable with the brewing process and the bottling process.

But if you want to give a sweeter sparkling cider a go, there is a sticky labeled "Stove Top Pasteurization" at the top of the cider forum you should check out.

 

[likafox]

I've only made one batch so far so im no expert, but im assuming once the cider tastes sweet enough, you could add a little priming sugar (or any sugar really) and bottle it. Just make sure its mixed up good before bottling and keep opening one every 2-3 days until its carbonated enough and refridrate it. Just make sure you store the bottles somewhere safe (somewhere that will be ok if one explodes) before you chill them down and then dont take it out of the fridge except for drinking. Dont take my word for it though.. seems a little sketchy. I actually found I like cider without carbonation. Seems more legit, like they used to make it in the old days.

 

[Yooper]

I've only made one batch so far so im no expert, but im assuming once the cider tastes sweet enough, you could add a little priming sugar (or any sugar really) and bottle it. Just make sure its mixed up good before bottling and keep opening one every 2-3 days until its carbonated enough and refridrate it. Just make sure you store the bottles somewhere safe (somewhere that will be ok if one explodes) before you chill them down and then dont take it out of the fridge except for drinking. Dont take my word for it though.. seems a little sketchy. I actually found I like cider without carbonation. Seems more legit, like they used to make it in the old days.

Yeah, that process is more likely to blow up in your face (literally) than to give good results.

I'd ensure the cider was finished via gravity readings and either stabilize appropriately with sorbate and sulfite, or pasteurize per the sticky thread in this forum. That way, no glass grenades will be blowing up in people's houses.

 

[Sewer_Urchen]

I was going to say, and agree with Yooper, putting it in the fridge is no guarantee that you will stop fermentation...it will slow it, and that can work if you plan on drinking them all in a week or less...but many yeasts (including champagne) will ferment, slowly, but will ferment as low as 50* or even less. you will end up having bottle bombs...and nothing to drink.

 

[BenjiEDF]

I've only made one batch so far so im no expert, but im assuming once the cider tastes sweet enough, you could add a little priming sugar (or any sugar really) and bottle it. Just make sure its mixed up good before bottling and keep opening one every 2-3 days until its carbonated enough and refridrate it. Just make sure you store the bottles somewhere safe (somewhere that will be ok if one explodes) before you chill them down and then dont take it out of the fridge except for drinking. Dont take my word for it though.. seems a little sketchy. I actually found I like cider without carbonation. Seems more legit, like they used to make it in the old days.

No offense intended if I don't take your advice, but what you want in the end product... sounds like what I want I'll share any positive results I stumble upon, please return the favor

 

[saramc]

I've only made one batch so far so im no expert, but im assuming once the cider tastes sweet enough, you could add a little priming sugar (or any sugar really) and bottle it.....

It just keeps fermenting. The yeast does not leave the residual sugar alone and attack the priming sugar. If only it were that simple.

 

[likafox]

It just keeps fermenting. The yeast does not leave the residual sugar alone and attack the priming sugar. If only it were that simple.

Oh I know, I was just saying that in order to keep the sweetness that you want, you would need to prime before bottling. Otherwise obviously it would be dryer after bottle conditioning. But I guess thats too dangerous anyway, lol. I just bottled some cider that was at 1.004. Still tasted sweet enough for me. I primed with 40 grams of brown sugar in 2.6 gallons. Does that sound about right?

 

[Yooper]

Oh I know, I was just saying that in order to keep the sweetness that you want, you would need to prime before bottling. Otherwise obviously it would be dryer after bottle conditioning. But I guess thats too dangerous anyway, lol. I just bottled some cider that was at 1.004. Still tasted sweet enough for me. I primed with 40 grams of brown sugar in 2.6 gallons. Does that sound about right?

Well, since cider can stop at .990, you are really looking at potential bombs if you don't pasteurize the bottles when then are carbed up.

 

[likafox]

Well, since cider can stop at .990, you are really looking at potential bombs if you don't pasteurize the bottles when then are carbed up.

Woah I had no idea it could get that low. By the way im not using a traditional yeast. Its an english ale leftover from a beer I made (WLP002).