Pay for BeerSmith, or BrewTarget for free?

[mcarmack]

I downloaded BrewTarget and ran through their getting-started instructions, I think I get it. Seems like BeerSmith is the top software, at least it gets the most mentions...can someone tell me what it does better than BrewTarget, or what it does that BrewTarget doesn't do? Just trying to figure out whether to pay for functionality that is available for free. It must be better in some way, or no one would pay for it, right...?

Thanks!

 

[Oginme]

It really depends upon the features and customization you want to have in the program. I am a BeerSmith user though I tried most of the available software at the time that I purchased (about 3+ years ago) and don't know what features has been added to BrewTarget since.

The front end is different for each of the software packages and some people complain about how 'cobbled together' BeerSmith's GUI is as compared to other software. It handles a lot more customization of the background calculations which is not offered in some of the other software packages. A lot of people like BeerSmith for recipe formulation and then turn to other freeware for water calculations and brew day notes.

BeerSmith does take a better understanding of your particular process in order to really make it work well and consistently for you. It does take at a minimum around 3 to 5 brew days of good note and measurement taking to get it working accurately and some people just want to brew and not worry about minor differences which really may not impact their beer.

I would recommend trying both out and figure out which one works more intuitively for you.

BeerSmith comes with a 20 day trial and is due for an update very soon, which may impact the GUI issues some people have with it. I would recommend waiting for the upgrade announcement before doing your free trial test run.

In short, if you like to design your own recipes and are really into getting your process modeled well, BeerSmith is very good. BrewTarget may be just as good in a number of aspects. They both will use the same modeling equations and should give very similar results, so it really does come down to comfort level and ease of use.

 

[passedpawn]

I downloaded BrewTarget and ran through their getting-started instructions, I think I get it. Seems like BeerSmith is the top software, at least it gets the most mentions...can someone tell me what it does better than BrewTarget, or what it does that BrewTarget doesn't do? Just trying to figure out whether to pay for functionality that is available for free. It must be better in some way, or no one would pay for it, right...?

Thanks!

Hey, I just saved you 25 bucks by making you a supporting member here. Now, with that money you saved, go buy beersmith.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Hey, I just saved you 25 bucks by making you a supporting member here. Now, with that money you saved, go buy beersmith.

Bam. That is awesome!

I will agree with the above and I have tried many free programs. I also have beersmith. It is hands down the best and definitely worth the money.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Since this comes up all the time...

Recipe formulation: Beersmith/brewtarget/brewersfriend. Brewtarget is a great team making an opensource free software. It will be releasing a new update soon-ish once they iron out all the bugs. I feel like they're still a short bit to go before I can use them exclusively.

Volumes/temps/efficiencies: Priceless' BiabCalc my mash calculator, for obvious reasons. It's pretty awesome. Ever want to know what efficiency to expect on a new recipe? Let me tell you. My obviously unbiased opinion is that the larger software packages make is way too convoluted to get your volumes accurate. Why do I have to open 14 different windows and tabs to get through this?

Mash chemistry/ph: Bru'n water. Anything else is a compromise.

Yeast starters: Brewunited is my preferred.


The best package would incorporate multiple software, and is what I usually end up doing when I plan a brew. I'd love to see this all put in one software, but that time isn't coming anywhere soon I don't think.

bru'n water for water chemistry and mash ph.

something like brewuniteds starter tool for yeast starters.

my mash calculator, link in my sig, for volumes and lauter/mash/brewhouse efficiency estimates.

and Sean Terrills refractometer correction tool.

Bonus round: Scott Janish' hop calculator for flavor/aroma additions with boil time addition coefficients based on the hop oil volatility curves posted in one of his blog posts.

Note: IDK what the deal is with brewers friend, but their efficiency tool is not correct. It always reads a few (3-9) percent higher. IDK if the formulas wrong, it doesn't account for grain moisture content, or the grain yield/potentials are higher than they should be...


tl;dr Both are great for recipe formulation, and are a little crappy for different reasons for water volumes. Neither will estimate efficiencies before your brewday.

 

[laredo7mm]

...Mash chemistry/ph: Bru'n water. Anything else is a compromise...

To each their own, but with Brewer's Friend advanced water calculator and EZ Water Calculator, you can calculate the PH with known DI Mash PH for each type of grain. That seems much more accurate than basing everything off of beer color.

 

[Yooper]

To each their own, but with Brewer's Friend advanced water calculator and EZ Water Calculator, you can calculate the PH with known DI Mash PH for each type of grain. That seems much more accurate than basing everything off of beer color.

Maybe. But with EZ, my pH predictions never once (not once!) were within .3 of my actual mash pH. That's a huge difference, and not something that can be overlooked.

 

[pshankstar]

BeerSmith comes with a 20 day trial and is due for an update very soon, which may impact the GUI issues some people have with it. I would recommend waiting for the upgrade announcement before doing your free trial test run.

I keep hearing about a new update coming soon to Beersmith but I cannot find anything about it. Does anyone have a link to where Brad May have mentioned the much anticipated update?

Also, I'm a relatively new user to Beersmith. I'm still dialing in my numbers but love it so far!! I just downloaded the iOS app but wish I could sync my inventory and my profile I made on the desktop version.

 

[palys2]

I use brew target on my Linux laptop. I had stability issues with BeerSmith. I would've bought it if it wasn't crashing. In my opinion, brew target is ok, but BeerSmith is more widely used. Others I have spoken to are really happy with it.

 

[mcarmack]

I keep hearing about a new update coming soon to Beersmith but I cannot find anything about it. Does anyone have a link to where Brad May have mentioned the much anticipated update?

Just checked their forums, all I see referenced is a planned version 2.3 update that he has been working on since at least December. I saw no mention of a more major update to a 3.0 version.

 

[Oginme]

Just checked their forums, all I see referenced is a planned version 2.3 update that he has been working on since at least December. I saw no mention of a more major update to a 3.0 version.

Brad stated that this next update would be in the 2.x series and available to everyone for a free upgrade. Usually a x.0 update is a major rewrite and would mean that users would need to pay for the new version if they wanted to upgrade.

The discussion on the update Brad is presently working on:
http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,14440.0.html

 

[laredo7mm]

Maybe. But with EZ, my pH predictions never once (not once!) were within .3 of my actual mash pH. That's a huge difference, and not something that can be overlooked.

Where the bad estimates from EZ consistently high or low? Or was there no pattern to the error?

Even with using brewer's friend water calculator, I get very different acid additions depending on if I use the grist info based on color, or if I use the DI Mash PH.

 

[Yooper]

Where the bad estimates from EZ consistently high or low? Or was there no pattern to the error?

Even with using brewer's friend water calculator, I get very different acid additions depending on if I use the grist info based on color, or if I use the DI Mash PH.

Often high- but not often enough that there was a pattern. Both Brewer's Friend and Bru'nwater are usually pretty close for me. For a while there, I used all three to compare the actual pH, and found that while Brewer's Friend was often close, Bru'nwater was more predictably very close (often within .02 or less).

 

[Biscuits]

I built my own in Microsoft Excel...It's basically just me plagiarizing the PricelessBIAB Calculator and Bru'n Water. I put everything I liked from the software I found myself using and customized it to how I like it and to my system. It was more so I could learn, but now that I have it pretty well tuned, I don't even feel tempted to try anything else.

 

[55x11]

Often high- but not often enough that there was a pattern. Both Brewer's Friend and Bru'nwater are usually pretty close for me. For a while there, I used all three to compare the actual pH, and found that while Brewer's Friend was often close, Bru'nwater was more predictably very close (often within .02 or less).

Have you tried BeerSmith water adjustments part of the app? What do you think?

 

[Yooper]

Have you tried BeerSmith water adjustments part of the app? What do you think?

Not the app, only the desktop version. It's worthless, at least on that version.

 

[MaytagMan]

Thanks for the good thread. I am brand new (as in still getting things together for my first batch), and am going to start with 1.5 gallon (approx.) small batches to dial recipes in and such before moving to larger batches at some point.


I intend to do full volume boil BIAB for both small batches at the beginning, and larger batches later on, so my concern is which will serve me best in doing full volume BIAB?


With the numerous calculators that have been talked about here, etc (and I have opened all of the BIAB sig links too), I am a little overwhelmed with so much to choose from... tough problem, right?


So if you were in my shoes and thinking about what to do, what would you all recommend?


Thanks!

 

[Oginme]

If you are using kits or scaling down published recipes, I would recommend trying several of the free options to start. Figure out which one works OK for you. Then as you progress in your brewing sample some of the others and keep with the one that you feel more comfortable with. This includes using separate calculators as Pricelessbrewing suggested.

If you are looking into designing your own recipes or greatly modifying published recipes, then use one of the software packages which is more inclusive to start and challenge it by d'ling and comparing it with others. Realize that the all-inclusive packages are usually weak in certain areas (such as BeerSmith and water adjustments as Yooper pointed out) and you may need to look to other stand alone calculators to make things work for you.

Modeling software is really a personal thing. The GUI and accessibility of information often follows the thinking process of the author(s) and this may or may not be intuitive to you.

 

[Biscuits]

Thanks for the good thread. I am brand new (as in still getting things together for my first batch), and am going to start with 1.5 gallon (approx.) small batches to dial recipes in and such before moving to larger batches at some point.


I intend to do full volume boil BIAB for both small batches at the beginning, and larger batches later on, so my concern is which will serve me best in doing full volume BIAB?


With the numerous calculators that have been talked about here, etc (and I have opened all of the BIAB sig links too), I am a little overwhelmed with so much to choose from... tough problem, right?


So if you were in my shoes and thinking about what to do, what would you all recommend?


Thanks!

A lot of people use different software because of personal preference. Some people don't stress the numbers as much and chose their software because it gets them "close enough". Some are "exactists", as I call them" and need to set their software up to account for every tiny bit of loss in their system and get as close to exact numbers as they can. Nothing is wrong with either method, and I am sure both make great beer....brewing is a balance between art and science, afterall.

I am not you, and don't know what your level of knowledge is on all things brewing...but I think general advice is to K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) at first. For your first 5 or 6 brews at least, use tried and true recipes and take substantial notes. After you have your process and equipment figured out you can start adding in new equipment, processes, and/or software adjustments.

As far as scaling recipes goes, most people will tell you that you can simple divide everything down from the original recipe...this is generally true...but not completely. However, for now, like I said...KISS.

 

[eric19312]

If you are a mac user Beer Alchemy is worth a look. The integration between the desktop version and the iOs version is quite good. I like being able to work on desktop and then sync to my phone/ipad and back and forth. I use the ipad version during brew day. I use the desktop version when planning recipes and looking up stuff to post here. I use the phone app when I take my beer to a tasting and want to check out recipe notes.

As for pH prediction no it doesn't do that. I use brewers friend or bru'n water for that.

It does a good job with water volume calculations and I routinely end up within .002 SG of target. Predicted attenuation is maybe less accurate. Would be nice if I could specify expected attenuation based on previous recipe results.

Worth a look depending on your platform.

 

[MaytagMan]

I'm a PC guy, so it looks like I need to just fool around with things and see how they go.


I am in the equipment-gathering phase, so I am the newbest of newbs. I can see the value of the software, and how it can help me improve myself once I get things dialed in.


The interface doesn't bother me either way - Once I get something figured out it is all good. If I go with either, I'll have to get my equipment all figured out and entered, and then look through threads here to make sure that I have things set up correctly for full volume BIAB.


One of my goals is getting started with this is to eventually get to the point that I know to start off with X gallons to get Y gallons into the bottling bucket. I assume that will just take practice.


As to which to choose, well... maybe when I get all ready to go the BS free trial would be something worth looking into before making a final decision.


Thanks!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

One of my goals is getting started with this is to eventually get to the point that I know to start off with X gallons to get Y gallons into the bottling bucket. I assume that will just take practice.


As to which to choose, well... maybe when I get all ready to go the BS free trial would be something worth looking into before making a final decision.


Thanks!

If you couldn't tell from my previous post, I'm definitely in the "exactist" category of brewers.

Different grain bills will require different amounts of waters, as the amount of water absorbed by the grains is proportional to the amount of grains. To a lesser extant, same with hops as they absorb water as well.

 

[MaytagMan]

If you couldn't tell from my previous post, I'm definitely in the "exactist" category of brewers.

Different grain bills will require different amounts of waters, as the amount of water absorbed by the grains is proportional to the amount of grains. To a lesser extant, same with hops as they absorb water as well.

Ha! Yeah, I think I'll end up in that category as well. (Hence, the research on software before I even get started... LOL)

It seems that the software would make all of the water calculations (and others) much easier.

 

[doug293cz]

If you are going to BIAB, I highly recommend @pricelessbrewing 's calculator for doing water volumes and temps. It's also the only calculator I know of that does predicted and actual efficiency calculations based on grain bill and process (full disclosure: I contributed the methodology for the efficiency calcs, so I may or may not be a little biased.) Other calculators require predicted efficiency to be input by the user (or use a default if not.)

You will need other software for recipe design and archiving. I suggest getting familiar with a couple of the free ones (Brewers Friend, BrewTarget, etc.) before starting the timer on a BeerSmith trial. Having some familiarity with the features and inputs required by brew software will make evaluating BS easier, and you are more likely to be able to give it a fair evaluation before the trial period runs out.

When you get into controlling mash pH, I recommend Bru'n Water.

Brew on

 

[MaytagMan]

Thanks for the info!


I have that page bookmarked, and will use it for sure. I'll have to do some research on how to set up the inputs for a full volume boil, but researching and learning things like that is part of the fun and interest for me.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Thanks for the info!


I have that page bookmarked, and will use it for sure. I'll have to do some research on how to set up the inputs for a full volume boil, but researching and learning things like that is part of the fun and interest for me.

Pretty much everyone assumes full volume boil (referring to not topping off with water after the boil). If you mean full volume mash, aka no sparge, then set mash thickness and sparge volume to zero and that's it

 

[MaytagMan]

Pretty much everyone assumes full volume boil (referring to not topping off with water after the boil). If you mean full volume mash, aka no sparge, then set mash thickness and sparge volume to zero and that's it

Thanks for the terminology correction, and the tip!

 

[mxstar21]

Beersmith is the way to go for me. Totally worth the $20 or $25 I paid. It makes it really easy to create your own recipes. I hope this new update rumor is true. I will purchase it again if need be. IT has been a very valuable tool in my brewing practices.

 

[55x11]

Beersmith is the way to go for me. Totally worth the $20 or $25 I paid. It makes it really easy to create your own recipes. I hope this new update rumor is true. I will purchase it again if need be. IT has been a very valuable tool in my brewing practices.

I like beersmith as well. Both Mac (on multiple computers) and iPhone options work great for me and it has a lot of useful features. Cloud recipe sharing is useful for synchronizing across devices.

I wish more HBT users were using Beersmith so all classic recipes were in their database.

Definitely worth the cost. I also enjoy Brad's podcasts - extremely informative, I am willing to $ contribute just for that!

Update is 2.3 version I think - not 3.0, so no need to pay again. It's in beta and will be available within a month.

 

[passedpawn]

If anybody want's a totally free version of Beersmith that won't time out ( a version, BTW, that I loved), I posted to my dropbox below. Beersmith 1.4 was shareware, and I have the installer. It won't time out. It has some minor limitations, but its GUI was straight forward and it's a great way to get started with the software. I've considered going back to it many times.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk708xdbtls32jd/beersmith.exe?dl=0

If this link doesn't work for you (i.e., it's not 2016 and I've removed it), PM me your address.

 

[thunderwagn]

I use brew target on my Linux laptop. I had stability issues with BeerSmith. I would've bought it if it wasn't crashing. In my opinion, brew target is ok, but BeerSmith is more widely used. Others I have spoken to are really happy with it.

I've paid for and use Brewers Friend (my go to) and Beersmith. I'm using beersmith on my Linux laptop through Wine (when I can muster up the will to tinker with it). I just recently downloaded and installed Brewtarget on my Linux. What a breeze to run compared to BS! I'd almost lean toward throwing some coin to the Brewtarget team for the Linux support and ease of use on that system alone. There are some hiccups that I have found with the software and it still needs some polishing for sure, but it looks to be a contender in my book. Especially if it continues Linux support.

 

[doug293cz]

I've paid for and use Brewers Friend (my go to) and Beersmith. I'm using beersmith on my Linux laptop through Wine (when I can muster up the will to tinker with it). I just recently downloaded and installed Brewtarget on my Linux. What a breeze to run compared to BS! I'd almost lean toward throwing some coin to the Brewtarget team for the Linux support and ease of use on that system alone. There are some hiccups that I have found with the software and it still needs some polishing for sure, but it looks to be a contender in my book. Especially if it continues Linux support.

Are you aware that there is a version of BeerSmith that runs natively Linux? It's what I use.

Brew on

 

[thunderwagn]

Are you aware that there is a version of BeerSmith that runs natively Linux? It's what I use.

Brew on

Yes, but for some reason I could never get it to run or install properly except running through wine...I don't know why lol?