all grain pump issue with new stand

[qtd3612]

I brewed my first 10 gallon on my new stand and coolers set up.

had a issue with the chugger pump.


All grain, new stand, well brewed my 1st time using the10 gallon coolers , chugger pump and kettle from your store,

Everything went very well with a few minor details that I need some help on.

I have a copper line ( used shark bite fitting and some pex tubing ) to run from the kettle down to the chugger and then up to either the mash or the hlt.

The attached pdf shows the set up.

I opended the valve to from the kettle above the pump then opened the valve (the drain to primp the pump then closed that valuve and turn pump on.

Then opend the value going to the mash tun. This worked great no issue ( I think can’t remember) then when it came to sparge and we pumped water to the Hlt a few feet higher the pump would
run good pressure but drop off and I would have to close that valve and then open the drain one again close it and open hlt again and the pressure would be back up.

Any thought as to what could cause this. I assume the pump is strong enough to pump up that high.

Do I need to not open the valve to the hlt as open so to restrict it some? Or do you think I am getting air in the line?

Thoughts or point me in the right direction.


thanks,
:rockin:

View attachment all grain stand issues 2.pdf

 

[Bookworm]

How high are you pumping and what is the pump's head rating?

 

[mikescooling]

You need a 1/2-3/4 closed valve on the out-let of the pump. If you get an air bubble in the in-coming line it will not pump at all. That pump needs to be flooded at all times when in use. If it makes a high pitched noise your doing something wrong and going to burn the pump out.

 

[qtd3612]

book worm: the highest point is 9 ft roughly from the pump. i know it's high but I gravity from hlt to mash to pot thru chiller to a carboy (with funnel on top).
chugger pump 1/20 hp should be around 7gpm

Mikescooling: might sound like a dump question but when you say a 1/2 and 3/4 closed value do you mean a ball value that i open 1/2 way? or do they make a fitting like that.

i have a ball valve up towards the top that I cracked half way to see if this would help and it didnt.

I ran another batch this weekend and it did the same to both mash tun about 6 ft and hlt at 9 ft.

However the drain hose line that i have tee off when I cracked that open you can hear the pump kick in and water start to shoot out the end which this drain line is slight lower then the pump.

So maybe having the restriction 1/2 and 3/4 right after the outlet of the pump would maybe help going up to the 9ft.

Also new to the pump the first time out i turned the inlet water off and it ran for a bit before I turned it off maybe 4 minutes. no high pitched sounds but I am wonder what would be the symptons if I ran it dry?

 

[mikescooling]

Yes choke the outlet of the pump down with a valve as needed (see picture) to keep the back pressure on the pump, to keep it flooded. You can see in my picture of the MLT going to the BK, I picked up an air bubble as the MLT ran dry; so even if I added more water to the MLT, I'd have to re-prime the pump. Can you give a picture of your rig so we can see how it's piped?

 

[qtd3612]

are you able to open a Pdf? if so I has attached a pdf showing my system in the original thread. If not i will post a picture

thanks

Dale

 

[mrwizard0]

I had a similar problem with my cooler setup. I am pretty sure there was not enough dead space below the false bottom and the pump would cause to much suction in the mash tun collapsing the grain bed and nothing would flow. I don't think my fix would help you though, because I was already updating my rig and I was waiting on money to get a false bottom for my 20 gallon pot. But that's the only thing I changed. If compressing the grain bed is the issue, running it slower should definitely help

 

[Bookworm]

The pump rating I found for this pump was 18.6' of head. Depending on the size of pipe used every 90 deg elbow will be adding up to several feet of head. It looks like you have a lot of elbow restrictions in the system. I would look up the head restriction for each type and size of fitting you have, add that to the length of pipe, and see if it is well under the head rating. Just looking at the picture, I think you are probably at or over the head rating of the pump.

 

[novahokie09]

Here are your pump curves:
Pump Curves

You should get close to 1 GPM operating at 16.5 ft of head based on Chugger's curves. For this to make any sense, you need to calculate your system's head requirements. To do this, you need to know three things: suction head, discharge head and frictional head.

The system head requirement is simply the difference between the discharge head and the suction head. Both include frictional losses for each side, but I include them into one term. From your .pdf, you have approximately 8 ft by my esimation of discharge head from the pump to your HLT. The suction side is ~2 ft, again estimated from the .pdf. You can take your own measurements.

Then, you have to factor in all the frictional losses from pipe runs, pipe fittings and ball valves. These increase the head requirement to pump the fluid. A 1/2" copper 90 standard elbow adds around 1.6 ft head to the system. From the .pdf, it looks like you have close to 5 in your system. Count them for an exact number because it's hard for me to tell from the pictures.

This adds an additional 8 ft, so your total head requirement is close to 14 ft (8 ft (discharge) -2 ft (suction) + 8 ft (frictional)). From the pump curves, you should expect around 3.2 gpm at 14 ft. Obviously, the ball valves and any build up in the pipe increase frictional head, so the system head requirement may be higher than 14 ft.

As you can see, the higher the system head requirement, the less flow you'll get from your pump. You have a few options to fix this. The easiest option is to install a ball valve on pump's discharge output to restrict flow to guarantee you have enough pressure to get flow at your HLT. You could also lower your HLT and MLT by lowering the mounting brackets position on the 80/20. Likewise, you could increase the height of your boiling kettle. Another option would be to reduce the number of elbows. By removing 2, you can save almost 3 ft of head, which can increase your flow by close to 1 gpm, depending on where you fall on the curve.

I hope this helps.

Edit: I wanted to explain how each option impacts the system head, in effort to help you better understand how system head requirements work. Lowering the HLT and MLT decrease the discharge requirement. Raising the boiling kettle increases the suction requirement, resulting in a lower net requirement. Removing elbows and fittings reduces the frictional requirements.

 

[qtd3612]

I added the exit side ball valve and took out one elbow. I tried to adjust the ball valve to near no flow and the pressure and flow still died off after only a few minutes. I think it actually got worst. I then took a piece of the pex tubing and ran it off the ball value curved it up to the tank ( took out all the elbows) and it performed the same. after i prime it the water runs good but then slowing decreases to there is nothing coming out over about a 2-3 minute period.

Still looking for a solution here. I use gravity from one tank to the next and then after the boil kettle thru a chiller then to the carboy so all the height requirement is what it is for now.

 

[acidrain]

I can't tell from your PDF where exactly the valves are...
You need a valve where the liquid leaves the tank towards the pump. When you run it, this valve should be wide open and no air can be introduced into the input side of the pump.
You need a valve at the exit side of the pump (right on the pump). This is where you control the flow. That's it.
Either you're introducing air into the inlet side of the pump somehow, or you are choking the inlet side.