Northern Brewer sale - shelf life of kits

[ILMSTMF]

TL; DR version - Northern running a sale. 3 extract kits required to get the deal. I won't be buying yeast for each kit, probably just one. Will the other two kits last over 4 months?

Northern is doing a very tempting sale today. 3 kits required to get the deal. I'm looking at SMASH, Irish red, and American wheat. To brew in that order. NB rep says the kits have a shelf life of 3 to 4 months.

Trouble is, 1) I don't have enough bottles to keep up with brewing/bottling and 2) I can't drink the beer quickly enough to create empties.

Questions:

• shelf life quote. I'm thinking (hoping) the rep is saying that just to cover himself. Can anybody speak for their experience with shelf life on these kits past 4 months?

• Not intending to start another redundant thread; I don't typically reuse bottles from breweries. I've been recycling my own purchased empties. Why? I don't have Oxyclean and I can't get the labels off of brewers' bottles. Oxyclean hot soak overnight enough to remove labels/prep the bottle for sanitizing?

• Drinking all batches quickly. Not really an option; I'll need rehab! And I don't really have friends/family to help me drink it all so...

Wild card - I have a barleywine kit that needs to be brewed before any of these. It will be occupying primary for a month, then secondary for 5 months. Which means all above kits will ferment in primary only. And I only have one temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

 

[unionrdr]

Take the kits apart & keep a list of what ingredient goes with what beer kit. Put hops in the freezer, yeast & LME in the fridge. They stay fresh a lot longer sealed in those environments. Maybe buy some more cases of bottles? I keep about 5-6 batches worth of bottles around.

 

[gwinn758]

I have two from Midwest that I got in June going to brew them next week, they'll be fine I separate them as Unionrdr says. I was starting all grain after them but, that will wait a few more batches I can't pass up getting three shipped for less than the price of two.

 

[eadavis80]

I am pretty sure I've brewed at least one of their kits 4-5 months after the order was placed and it turned out fine. I did fridge the yeast and froze the hops, but I didn't refrigerate the LME - just kept it in the box in my basement which is about 60 degrees in the winter. I'll probably order 3 kits myself and brew one over Turkey Day weekend and then won't brew the other 2 'till Valentine's Day. I have no fear in doing that. If you pitch healthy yeast and ferment at the right temp, that's the big thing, IMO. It might not be QUITE AS GOOD as if I brewed it while it was fresh, but at those savings, I'll live with it. The other thing you COULD DO, is buy a bunch of secondaries and let them sit in there 'till you're ready to bottle.

 

[kh54s10]

I would stick somewhat close to the recommended shelf life. The pre-crushed grain and the extract will go stale eventually.

Ask your friends for bottles. Unless you are a loner you should be able to get more bottles than you need in a short amount of time.

I bought bottles for my first batch and collected while the next ones were fermenting. In about 6-8 months I had between 10 and 56 bottles of 12 different beers in storage.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[KPBrews]

Soo... to be clear, the reason you're not reusing commercial bottles from breweries is that you can't get the labels off?

What's wrong with a good ol' roll of masking tape and a sharpie? What matters is how it tastes, not how it looks. (also, considering OxyClean Free is readily available at most supermarkets ... and Amazon ... why can't you get some to remove the labels?)

 

[unionrdr]

Or buy beers that have easily removable labels? Paulaner, franziskaner, Wernesgruner, sam adams, deschutes, high seas, victory, unitas, crabbie's, DFH, & many others have labels that soak off easily.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I've said before that I love this place. Thanks to everybody for your thoughtful responses!

Put hops in the freezer, yeast & LME in the fridge. They stay fresh a lot longer sealed in those environments.

they'll be fine I separate them as Unionrdr says. I can't pass up getting three shipped for less than the price of two.

Brilliant idea! Yup, sale is great.

I am pretty sure I've brewed at least one of their kits 4-5 months after the order was placed and it turned out fine. I did fridge the yeast and froze the hops, but I didn't refrigerate the LME - just kept it in the box in my basement which is about 60 degrees in the winter. If you pitch healthy yeast and ferment at the right temp, that's the big thing The other thing you COULD DO, is buy a bunch of secondaries and let them sit in there 'till you're ready to bottle.

This raises an interesting point. Cost effective vs buying fresh bottles? I think not. But more to the point, is the beer going to stay fresher uncarbonated in secondary or in the bottles? More on this below.

I would stick somewhat close to the recommended shelf life. The pre-crushed grain and the extract will go stale eventually.
In about 6-8 months I had between 10 and 56 bottles of 12 different beers in storage.

I worry about having too much particularly with respect to what's going to go stale. Which leads to the variable question, stick with me here. For maximum freshness, A) freeze/refrigerate ingredients then wait to brew kits until one can reasonably expect to drink the batch soon after? B) brew all kits on hand, leave in secondaries until ready to bottle/drink? C) brew all kits on hand, bottle and drink as you go (as kh54s10 is doing)?

Soo... to be clear, the reason you're not reusing commercial bottles from breweries is that you can't get the labels off?

What's wrong with a good ol' roll of masking tape and a sharpie? What matters is how it tastes, not how it looks.

Or buy beers that have easily removable labels?

haha, I realize how silly that sounds. I hope you had a chuckle.
Anyway, my fear is the residual adhesive from those labels. My sanitizing process for bottles is running on hot cycle/sani-rinse in dishwasher. I realize it's kinda paranoia but what if that glue melts off and winds up in the bottle, ya know? Which is why I asked about oxy free; will a soak get the exteriors smooth? I'd do an oxy soak then sanitize as above if yes.

Thanks again folks!! Probably going to buy the kits but will wait for some feedback on above questions.

 

[soccerdad]

On topic - who cares what label is on the bottle if it is clean inside and U know what's in it?

Off topic - how do U guys store DME? I use it for starters, but what I have on hand now is approaching a year old. I keep it cool and dry, but those are relative terns in south Georgia

 

[Genacide]

Don't store the grains in the fridge or freezer and use the kits with grains first. LME and yeast in the fridge, hops in the freezer.

DME I keep anywhere dry and cool, ie kitchen cabinet or basement. I have some that it a year plus old and still fine.

 

[KPBrews]

haha, I realize how silly that sounds. I hope you had a chuckle.
Anyway, my fear is the residual adhesive from those labels. My sanitizing process for bottles is running on hot cycle/sani-rinse in dishwasher. I realize it's kinda paranoia but what if that glue melts off and winds up in the bottle, ya know? Which is why I asked about oxy free; will a soak get the exteriors smooth? I'd do an oxy soak then sanitize as above if yes.

Every report I've read has said Oxy soak then sanitize and you're good.

If you're worried, though, perhaps simply arrange the bottle vertically for the soak part (fill them with water so they don't float)? Then the Oxy solution (and accompanying glue) won't enter the bottle. Anything remaining on the bottle after the soak should come off with a scrubby reasonably easy. Then, again, wash and sanitize and you should be good. You can also bake the bottle to sterilize it at the end of the process (bring the temps up slowly, in stages, so the glass doesn't shatter, and let cool overnight). After a couple of hours at 350 or so, ain't nothing gonna survive. Easy Google search for recommended steps.

 

[UndeadFred]

I bought a few last year. They seemed fine 4 months later. LME in the fridge or in a cool spot in the basement. Or if you are like me, kick the gravity up a little and use a SMaSH kit as extra LME..

But hops in the freezer, and use the ones with specialty grains first.

It's a good enough deal that even though I do AG now, the thought of a couple 1/2 brew days for the price of doing AG, I ordered three more of those kits. Make one of them SMaSH and/or Wheat, and do it last and you should be fine. The Brown Ale and Christmas Ale gets better after a couple of months in the keg/bottle, so you could just go crazy and brew a couple of those at once, or back to back, and store the beer. There are a lot of options.

Last year NB would sell the kits with the steeping grains uncrushed if you asked.. not this year.. well that and the $7.99 that turns into $13 if you don't want to wait an extra week... sigh...

Fred

 

[hezagenius]

Don't store the grains in the fridge or freezer and use the kits with grains first. LME and yeast in the fridge, hops in the freezer.

DME I keep anywhere dry and cool, ie kitchen cabinet or basement. I have some that it a year plus old and still fine.

Why not store the grains in the freezer or fridge?

 

[Genacide]

Why not store the grains in the freezer or fridge?

In the fridge you can get a moisture build up that can spoil the grains. The freezer could be an option, but isn't needed.

 

[jekeane]

Assuming you have a local store or a friend with a mill you can ask for the grain unmilled which would significantly increase its lifespan.

 

[hezagenius]

I put my grains in a vacuum bag and then freeze them.

 

[unionrdr]

I store mine in their bags (Maillard Malts), which are ziplock in a dunage container. Keepe'em cool & dry & they'll be fine.

 

[UndeadFred]

With grains, especially crushed you can also pick up "refrigerator" flavors or "freezer burnt" flavors also. And yes, moisture can be a problem as well. I imagine the steeping grains are already modified grains like Crystal (I'd have to look) and one would have to guess that they are more stable (or at least a little) than base malts..

Fred

 

[UndeadFred]

Assuming you have a local store or a friend with a mill you can ask for the grain unmilled which would significantly increase its lifespan.

Not any more, according to the rep who I typed with at the on-line chat at Northern Brewer. You can only now request uncrushed grains for All Grain kits. It apparently is part of their new customer service campaign. Started at the same time the $8 shipping became $13. I almost didn't order because of that. Still was too good of a deal to pass up since I don't often have as much time at this time of a year, so an extract "quickie" or two isn't a bad plan.

Fred

 

[UndeadFred]

I put my grains in a vacuum bag and then freeze them.

Now, I bet that would work. I do have a vacuum sealer.. I guess I'll try it this year!

 

[ILMSTMF]

Flat shipping's now $13? Bummer! Errr, scratch that. $8 "i can wait" flat shipping is still a thing. I'm fine with that. OK, no sweat.

Anyway, update on the new plan. Irish red is going first since it's the only one in my order with specialty grains. Then SMASH, then American wheat...by early Summer.

Still would really appreciate some insight on below question before I pull the trigger on this order:

I worry about having too much particularly with respect to what's going to go stale. Which leads to the variable question, stick with me here. For maximum freshness, A) freeze/refrigerate ingredients then wait to brew kits until one can reasonably expect to drink the batch soon after? B) brew all kits on hand, leave in secondaries until ready to bottle/drink? C) brew all kits on hand, bottle and drink as you go (as kh54s10 is doing)?

Thanks!

 

[UndeadFred]

<UNOPENED> (edit) LME will darken up over time but it doesn't go "bad" or anything unless it's like 1+ year old. Hops if not allowed to oxidize will get weaker but should still be okay.. in these beers except for the SMaSH they are all pretty low alpha anyway.

The specialty grains will lose flavor over time, but last year I bought four kits-- The Red, The Brown, the "Christmas" and the SMaSH. I did the brown right away (a week later), then 4 weeks later the Christmas, then about 7 weeks later the Red and finally 6 weeks after that the SMaSH. So 18 weeks is what.. 4.5 months later. Save the SMaSH and/or the Wheat for last... and you should be golden.

All turned out good. I modified all of the recipes to give them a little more oomph (I am the type that can't not screw with a kit) but I stored everything except the yeast (which I did buy last year from NB, but not this year) and the hops at 68F basement temps.

I refrigerated the yeast and the hops (I didn't freeze them as they are nitrogen purged anyway from NB)...

All were fine... Seriously.. all turned out good. Just don't go and buy more than you will use in 4-5 months... If you decide you must, buy more of the Wheat or SMaSH...

Fred

 

[unionrdr]

Even though the hops are purged & sealed, they can degrade over time. Freezing them slows this way down. Ditto with fridging the yeast & LME.

 

[phishheadmi]

Thanks for posting this, I saw it and just took advantage of the sale. I've also been planning to jump into AG on the next, but for the prices it'll make some nice, quick holiday beer!

Fred, would you mind detailing how you modified the kits? I'd like to ramp up the flavor intensity and ABV as well. Also, did you find the brewing guide to be accurate or make changes there as well?

 

[JLEEFELDMAN]

For bottles use soda bottles or get your friends to save 16oz BMC screw top cans. You will never go back to glass. Rinse and sanitize then fill and squeeze out the oxygen.

 

[andrewmaixner]

...
Fred, would you mind detailing how you modified the kits? I'd like to ramp up the flavor intensity and ABV as well. Also, did you find the brewing guide to be accurate or make changes there as well?

(Hey fred, see you this evening? )
I'm guessing a mini-mash of base malt or a little more DME, or a late/dry hop modification. I also picked up a couple to play with, at that price I couldn't resist. Going to try the wheat as a berliner weiss, for example.

 

[UndeadFred]

I added malt extract (DME for a couple and LME for one) last year. In the case of the nut brown and Christmas I added a little brown sugar and molasses to keep the color the same and make it a little more boozy. I didn't adjust the hops because they are pretty low I those. For the SMaSH I just bought more Briess Pilsen extract and doubled the LME, upped it to a six gallon batch and added an extra ounce of Simcoe from the LHBS. This year I am setup for all grain and I will likely mini mash the Rahr 2 row with the steeping grains to do the same. Still, I did get the box tonight and it was heavy. Tremendous deal no matter what..

 

[UndeadFred]

And Andrew, sorry I missed the CR Beer Nuts meeting. The IEEE meeting I had before went an hour over so it wasn't worth it. Next month!