No hop aroma yet, will that come from dry hopping?

[deeve007]

Hey brewer buddies!!

I have a NEIPA fermementing away at present, just added 40g (1.5 ounces) of amarillo to dry hop today (a week into fermenting), took a small sample and flavour/colour seem great, but there is zero hops aroma from what was added during the boil - 40g at the start of boil (for IBU I understand), 20g 15 minutes before flame out.

Is this normal, the hoppiness I would expect in a NEIPA will come from the dry hopping?

 

[RPh_Guy]

^ This may not be entirely accurate, but the principles still apply.

Hop flavor compounds are volatile, so boiling drives them away.

You should have some flavor from the 15 minute addition. Depending on how long it took to chill and how much oxidative damage was involved post-boil, it may have been lost. Or if the hops weren't packaged or stored properly they wouldn't give as much flavor.

Late boil additions, flame-out, whirlpool/hop stand, hop back, dry hop, and hop tea all contribute a lot of flavor/aroma.

I'd expect a NEIPA to have much heavier late and dry hop additions, and generally lower bittering additions than what you describe.

Hope this makes sense.
Cheers!

 

[balrog]

Love to see that graph augmented for whirlpool...

 

[deeve007]

Thanks for the info @RPh_Guy.

View attachment 645878
I'd expect a NEIPA to have much heavier late and dry hop additions, and generally lower bittering additions than what you describe.

I followed a purchased recipe on this one to have a "base" comparison, I will likely brew the same (or similar) again but changing when the hops are added, maybe the grain bill slightly, to then be able to compare the differences.

 

[jjw5015]

You're going to have to use ALOT more hops. Typical NEIPA recipe will have 10+ ounces in total. Mostly in whirlpool and dryhop.

 

[deeve007]

You're going to have to use ALOT more hops. Typical NEIPA recipe will have 10+ ounces in total. Mostly in whirlpool and dryhop.

My query at present is more about is it normal to have zero or minimal hop aroma before dry hopping? I will be playing with hop amounts in future brews...

 

[jjw5015]

My query at present is more about is it normal to have zero or minimal hop aroma before dry hopping? I will be playing with hop amounts in future brews...

It's normal when you don't use enough hops.

 

[RM-MN]

As mentioned, the hops in the boil don't add appreciable flavor/aroma as the boiling drives off the volatile oils that give you aroma. The late addition should leave some but that would also depend on how quickly the wort was cooled once the boil was finished. The variety of the hop also matters. I've detected flavor from Cascade after a full hour of boil. This is not common though.

Carbonation also plays a part in the aroma as when the beer is poured the bubbles of CO2 will carry the aroma to your nose.

 

[mattdee1]

My query at present is more about is it normal to have zero or minimal hop aroma before dry hopping? I will be playing with hop amounts in future brews...

I'm assuming you have a bit of a preconception here on what to expect for hop aroma, that comes from your experience enjoying commercial examples of the style you're trying to make.

You'll definitely notice a bit of an uptick in aroma once the beer is packaged and carbonated. The foam in your pour helps express the aromas that are embedded in the beer.

But still, you're probably going to be disappointed in the end result. I hope I'm wrong, but just being honest.

The bottom line is, IPAs require a very good process to do well at the homebrew level. As mentioned earlier, TONS of hops, mostly whirlpool and dryhop, is probably going to be needed to match your expectation. This opens up potential problems with excessive hop matter if you don't take some measure to keep it in check.

Even if you get all of that done properly, you need to really do everything you can to limit oxygen exposure during packaging. I had many failed hop-forward beers until I learned this lesson. If you just do open transfers, the oxygen will kill your aroma dead within a few weeks, if you're lucky.

 

[kh54s10]

The recipe and hop addition times quoted seem to be more of a standard APA, maybe approaching a regular IPA. For a NEIPA I would think if any hops were added at the beginning of the boil it would be about .5 ounce. Then a couple ounces at 10 minutes or later, a large whirlpool addition at 150 to 170 degrees and a large dry hop. At least triple the amount of hops used.

But to answer the question, dry hops will add aroma. It will take a couple of days.

 

[thehaze]

If the qty of hops from your thread is for a 5 gal or even 1 gal, they are not enough and will not get you an IPA. 60 gr of kettle hops is really low. I use 2-3 times more for a Pils/Vienna Lager with noble hops.

 

[deeve007]

Thanks @RM-MN & @mattdee1, that's the info I was after, cheers!

 

[Jag75]

Agree with the hop amounts. I use about 13 oz in my NEIPA. Most in whirlpool and dry hop. I think the best practice when it comes to NEIPA is to add dry hop on the 2nd day of fermentation. Then a 2nd dry hop addition 4 days out of packaging.

 

[Day-Day]

Not sure of your batch size... but in my 5 gallon Two Hearted clone... I use 6 oz of hops total... 2.5 on the hot side and 3.5 dry hop.... so your hop additions sound low... but NEIPA's often call for multiple dry hop charges... so you can keep adding if you feel like you need more... but keep in mind it's really hard to gauge what your finished beer will taste like when you're drinking it warm, straight out the fermenter... it takes a lot of time and experience to correlate those early flavors with what your finished beer will taste like ... you'd be surprised what a week or two, some cold temps and carbonation can do to a beer...

 

[mashpaddled]

That is not much in the way of hops for any kind of IPA but especially for a NEIPA. You aren't getting much hop aroma because you added them too early in the boil and just not enough. Your recipe might be ok if you are unloading a huge dry hop addition into the beer but I think you are going to be underwhelmed by the beer even by the time you finish the recipe. The error here is not your fault. It's just not a great recipe kit.

 

[deeve007]

Having a very early taste at the moment, and after the comments above I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of hop aroma & flavour I'm getting from the beer. Not as much as many of the best NEIPAs I've purchased, but definitely enough as you'd hope for a first batch testing how things go. Probably more of a "hazy IPA" than a NEIPA, and a little young/under carbonated at present, but very drinkable with a good body to it.

Will wait until I've given it a little more time before tasting again, but will probably do another NEIPA next and add a little more oats for a little more "smoothness", slighty different grain bill (not a kit, will find a recipe I like online), and a little more hops as per above comments, to see how that goes.

 

[Day-Day]

Nice looking beer mate... wish I could sample that... let us know how the hop flavor develops and or oxidizes... looks really good to me though...

 

[odie]

Had my first experience with dry hopping....made a pale ale (sierra clone) I've made before...usually just when I can't think of anything else to make and seems to be popular amongst the drinking buddies...

anyway, for some reason this time, it just seemed to lack that hop character of a SNPA...I know it's not an IPA but was just really lacking...well drinkable but just lacking that certain "something"...well it was in the keg at 55-60' for about a month, maybe 2 (will have to review my notebook) before tapping.

so I took about an ounce of random hops (I can't recall what kind but probably around 4.0-6.0 on the hops scale) into a mesh bag and dropped it in the keg and resealed it....well it's now got a very bold hop flavor that I'm liking...

So I say yes to the OP's question...definitely hop aroma and flavor from dry hopping...and it's a dramatic result from a dry hop too...

 

[deeve007]

Nice looking beer mate... wish I could sample that... let us know how the hop flavor develops and or oxidizes... looks really good to me though...

It's got better with a few weeks aging too, so really happy with it. Trying a different grain bill for another NEIPA (and loads more hops!) and then can compare the two and aim to do even better every time hopefully...