Epic Hop Zombie DIPA

[BillyPilgrim9]

Hi guys

This is my first post, but I've been perusing this site consistently for the last 6 months. Love it.

This past weekend, I was lucky enough to get my hands on two bottles of Epic's Hop Zombie DIPA, from Auckland NZ. This beer blew me away. It wasn't just hoppy - that was surely to be expected, right? - but the subtle and truly unique flavours that emerged left me (and my drinking buddy) dumbstruck. Tangerines/mandarin and red grapefruit dominated, with hints of apricot and passion fruit in the finish. I would absolutely love to have a crack at brewing something approaching this myself, but there aren't any recipes that I've been able to find, after extensive searching. Epic's website is great in that for each of their beers, they detail the malts, hops and IBUs, making it possible to piece together a clone pretty easily. Except for the Hop Zombie, where they keep the hops classified, stating simply the use of:

2 X US varieties
2X NZ varieties

So, I need the help of your palates and brains to try and guess what these mystery hops could be. Has this beer made it out to the US? Has anyone tried it? What are your thoughts?

Cheers in advance!

 

[bobbrews]

Tangerines/mandarin and red grapefruit dominated, with hints of apricot and passion fruit in the finish.

Could be any variation of Citra, Amarillo, Summit, or Falconer's Flight for the American hops... And Nelson Sauvin, Motueka, and/or Rakau for the NZ hops.

 

[crusader1612]

Hi guys

This is my first post, but I've been perusing this site consistently for the last 6 months. Love it.

This past weekend, I was lucky enough to get my hands on two bottles of Epic's Hop Zombie DIPA, from Auckland NZ. This beer blew me away. It wasn't just hoppy - that was surely to be expected, right? - but the subtle and truly unique flavours that emerged left me (and my drinking buddy) dumbstruck. Tangerines/mandarin and red grapefruit dominated, with hints of apricot and passion fruit in the finish. I would absolutely love to have a crack at brewing something approaching this myself, but there aren't any recipes that I've been able to find, after extensive searching. Epic's website is great in that for each of their beers, they detail the malts, hops and IBUs, making it possible to piece together a clone pretty easily. Except for the Hop Zombie, where they keep the hops classified, stating simply the use of:

2 X US varieties
2X NZ varieties

So, I need the help of your palates and brains to try and guess what these mystery hops could be. Has this beer made it out to the US? Has anyone tried it? What are your thoughts?

Cheers in advance!

Great brew. Hard to find. Even here in NZ

It's been around a couple of years. Avoid mosaic and Zythos as they make single hop beers with those. And are pretty new to our market

Simcoe is a good possibility. For US hops. Possibly Amarillo too?

I'm pretty sure it's NZ Riwaka. No idea on the other one. It's probably between nelson sauvin and Motueka

They do Armageddon and mayhem which are good USIPA's.

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Hey guys, thanks for your responses.

bobbrews: I'm pretty sure the hops I'm after are in your list, it's just a matter of picking the right ones! As crusader 1612 said, it's unlikely to be Mosaic (it was released in 2012 - Hop Zombie has been around for longer than that), or Zythos or Falconer's Flight for that matter, as both of those are hop blends developed to ease the pressure on high-end American hops during a few years of shortages. I remember reading on Epic's site that they weren't able to release Hop Zombie for a year because of the shortage of a particular Washington state grown hop - which leads me to think Citra, Amarillo or Simcoe. To be honest though I couldn't taste or smell any of the pine-resinous flavours/aromas which are so distinctive of Simcoe, but I got heaps of passion fruit, which I've always noticed with Citra.

Unfortunately I don't know many of the new NZ hops well enough (yet), though I have used Nelson Sauvin in three brews and love it. But from what I've read, and from what you guys just posted, I'd think it must be Riwaka, Rakau or Montueka - I just wish I'd had more experience with them (in the form of a single-hopped IPA of each).

So it's been narrowed down a bit. It's looking to me like Centennial and Citra for the US contingent, and Riwaka and either Nelson Sauvin or Rakau for the NZ.

crusader1612, just discovered your blog - I really like it. I'm heading to NZ later in the year for a couple of weeks, and I can't wait to get stuck into the NZ craft brew scene.

 

[skibb]

The guys over at Epic are pretty free with their information - they did a CYBI episode for their PA. I wouldn't hesitate to just shoot them an email and ask what hops, or maybe more info than that (like hop schedule etc.). The worst that can happen is they say no, or not respond, and in that case there's no harm done either way.

 

[crusader1612]

Hey guys, thanks for your responses.

bobbrews: I'm pretty sure the hops I'm after are in your list, it's just a matter of picking the right ones! As crusader 1612 said, it's unlikely to be Mosaic (it was released in 2012 - Hop Zombie has been around for longer than that), or Zythos or Falconer's Flight for that matter, as both of those are hop blends developed to ease the pressure on high-end American hops during a few years of shortages. I remember reading on Epic's site that they weren't able to release Hop Zombie for a year because of the shortage of a particular Washington state grown hop - which leads me to think Citra, Amarillo or Simcoe. To be honest though I couldn't taste or smell any of the pine-resinous flavours/aromas which are so distinctive of Simcoe, but I got heaps of passion fruit, which I've always noticed with Citra.

Unfortunately I don't know many of the new NZ hops well enough (yet), though I have used Nelson Sauvin in three brews and love it. But from what I've read, and from what you guys just posted, I'd think it must be Riwaka, Rakau or Montueka - I just wish I'd had more experience with them (in the form of a single-hopped IPA of each).

So it's been narrowed down a bit. It's looking to me like Centennial and Citra for the US contingent, and Riwaka and either Nelson Sauvin or Rakau for the NZ.

crusader1612, just discovered your blog - I really like it. I'm heading to NZ later in the year for a couple of weeks, and I can't wait to get stuck into the NZ craft brew scene.

Nice one, theres plenty of beers around here, and more popping up all the time, cheers for the likes on my blog, hope you enjoy your trip to these fair waters. If your around Christchurch theres some good brewpubs around that dont sell commercially, andin wellington as well. hit me up closer to the time, and I'll point you in the right direction.

Back to your hops, I'd stick with Riwaka, reason is because, I was under the impression from Epic that theres a US and NZ variety in shortage, namely riwaka, I'd agree with citra.
So given the new Season, although Riwaka is apparently going to be in Short supply again. I'd go with:
Riwaka & Motueka
Citra & Centennial, Possibly Columbus?
I've just finished my IIPA, had Columbus, Zythos, Amarillo, Centennial and NZCascade through it. Bottled last night, tastes.. well... EPIC. but not Hop Zombie EPIC.

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Cheers crusader1612, I will certainly hit up your advice closer to the time.

Okay, so based off the advice I received from you guys, this is my attempt at a Hop Zombie clone. A few concessions first: I'm still limited to brewing with extract and speciality grains... Embarrassing I know; and secondly, as I'm sure you're all aware, Riwaka is basically impossible to obtain at the moment, so I've subbed in Nelson Sauvin in its place. I know it's not a straight sub, but I think it's uniqueness will work in this NZ IPA.

Using BeerSmith:
60 min boil
Batch size: 19 L (5 gallon)

0.25 kg crystal malt (40 L) steeped for 30 min.
2 kg extra light dry extract to begin with, then a further 1.75 kg at 10 min.

25 g Citra @ 60 min
15 g Neslon Sauvin @ 60 min
Whirlfloc tablet @15 min
20 g Centennial @ 10 min
20 g Nelson Sauvin @ 7 min
20 g Citra @ 5 min
20 g Motueka @ Whirlpool

Ferment with 2 packets of Safale US-05

Primary @ 17º C for 4 weeks

Dry hop in the last week with:
15 g each of Citra, Centennial, Nelson Sauvin and Motueka.

Est. O.G. = 1.073
IBUs = 60
Colour = 12.8 EBC
Est ABV = 7.5 %

Any criticism/advice is very welcome. I'm planning on brewing it this weekend and I'll post with the outcome.

 

[crusader1612]

Cheers crusader1612, I will certainly hit up your advice closer to the time.

Okay, so based off the advice I received from you guys, this is my attempt at a Hop Zombie clone. A few concessions first: I'm still limited to brewing with extract and speciality grains... Embarrassing I know; and secondly, as I'm sure you're all aware, Riwaka is basically impossible to obtain at the moment, so I've subbed in Nelson Sauvin in its place. I know it's not a straight sub, but I think it's uniqueness will work in this NZ IPA.

Using BeerSmith:
60 min boil
Batch size: 19 L (5 gallon)

0.25 kg crystal malt (40 L) steeped for 30 min.
2 kg extra light dry extract to begin with, then a further 1.75 kg at 10 min.

25 g Citra @ 60 min
15 g Neslon Sauvin @ 60 min
Whirlfloc tablet @15 min
20 g Centennial @ 10 min
20 g Nelson Sauvin @ 7 min
20 g Citra @ 5 min
20 g Motueka @ Whirlpool

Ferment with 2 packets of Safale US-05

Primary @ 17º C for 4 weeks

Dry hop in the last week with:
15 g each of Citra, Centennial, Nelson Sauvin and Motueka.

Est. O.G. = 1.073
IBUs = 60
Colour = 12.8 EBC
Est ABV = 7.5 %

Any criticism/advice is very welcome. I'm planning on brewing it this weekend and I'll post with the outcome.

I would suggest, adding some carapils for head retention, and switch the 60mins from citra to nelson sauvin only, and make it bigger, it tends to be a smoother bitterness for what I've done. for a Riwaka sub, try a 3:1 ratio of motueka to sauvin, they reckon that gets close. then add your extra motueka, the advice i got for me recently finished IIPA, is that the more malt and alcohol it has , the more hops it can handle, so a bigger dry hop would would well, maybe 20g citra, and 15g centennial, 15g nelson, and 60g of motueka thats my advice.
but go nuts man, plenty of hops go into a hoppy beer.
Looking forward to the results.

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Great advice, I'll make some adjustments and post the amended recipe closer to the brew-day. How much carapils do you usually add?

 

[crusader1612]

Great advice, I'll make some adjustments and post the amended recipe closer to the brew-day. How much carapils do you usually add?

for normal brews, i add about 200g, for my recent IIPA i used 200g for a half batch, so that'd be 400g in a full batch.
I get to try it for the first time tonight, Its onlybeen bottled for a week, but I just can't resist...

 

[crusader1612]

How's this going?

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Sorry for the late reply, the final 6 months of my PhD are starting to get a little hectic.

I brewed this 4 weeks ago, and it's been fermenting at a steady 17º C. There were a few slight changes to the recipe - when I went to my brew shop, they had new stock in of Wai-Iti (a hop I had never heard of) and after reading the description, I subbed it in for my Nelson Sauvin additions.

Everything else stayed the same as the recipe I posted. I'm going to dry hop it tonight, for 2 weeks at 4º C; light on the Centennial and Citra and heavy on the Motueka and Wai-Iti. This beer is already smelling and looking great, so I can't wait to have a taste. I'll post my thoughts when I've cracked open my first one.

 

[crusader1612]

Please do. Post a final recipe too that'd be awesome

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Okay here is my updated recipe. I ended up down-sizing it to a 10 L batch so I could fit it in a little fridge and ferment it at a consistent temp. It's bottle conditioning at the moment.

Using BeerSmith:
60 min boil
Batch size: 10 L

0.125 kg crystal malt (40 L) steeped for 30 min.
1 kg extra light dry extract to begin with, then a further 1 kg with 10 min remaining.

2 g Citra @ 60 min
9 g Neslon Sauvin @ 60 min
Whirlfloc tablet @15 min
12 g Centennial @ 15 min
14 g Citra @ 10 min
20 g Wai-iti @ 5 min
20 g Moteuka @ 0 min

Ferment with 1 packets of Safale US-05

Primary @ 17º C for 4 weeks

Dry hop in the last week with:
15 g of Motueka
15 g of Wai-Iti
10 g of Citra
10 g of Centennial

Est. O.G. = 1.073
IBUs = 60
Colour = 12.8 EBC
Est ABV = 7.5 %

 

[crusader1612]

Okay here is my updated recipe. I ended up down-sizing it to a 10 L batch so I could fit it in a little fridge and ferment it at a consistent temp. It's bottle conditioning at the moment.

Using BeerSmith:
60 min boil
Batch size: 10 L

0.125 kg crystal malt (40 L) steeped for 30 min.
1 kg extra light dry extract to begin with, then a further 1 kg with 10 min remaining.

2 g Citra @ 60 min
9 g Neslon Sauvin @ 60 min
Whirlfloc tablet @15 min
12 g Centennial @ 15 min
14 g Citra @ 10 min
20 g Wai-iti @ 5 min
20 g Moteuka @ 0 min

Ferment with 1 packets of Safale US-05

Primary @ 17º C for 4 weeks

Dry hop in the last week with:
15 g of Motueka
15 g of Wai-Iti
10 g of Citra
10 g of Centennial

Est. O.G. = 1.073
IBUs = 60
Colour = 12.8 EBC
Est ABV = 7.5 %

Never tried Wai-iti, you'll have to let me know what flavours it contributes...

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Supposedly it's mandarin, lemon and lime zest. I can certainly pick up on the mandarin notes, which works perfectly with the other hops selected; it's a real fruit salad aroma!

 

[PissyFingers]

Im not sure wa iti was around when Luke did the first ever batch of Zombie, pretty sure he hasn't changed the recipe. I agree with Riwaka, and either Nelson sav or Rakau. U.S i think Citra and ? im not sure of the other. It isnt grapefruit forward by any means, more tropical and "sweet orange" citrus
fruit. Last time i was talking to Luke he said he made a 5000litre batch and lost 800litres of that just to hop trub, he said there's a SH#T TON of hops in there.

But yes, it is a bloody awesome DIPA!

 

[crusader1612]

Im not sure wa iti was around when Luke did the first ever batch of Zombie, pretty sure he hasn't changed the recipe. I agree with Riwaka, and either Nelson sav or Rakau. U.S i think Citra and ? im not sure of the other. It isnt grapefruit forward by any means, more tropical and "sweet orange" citrus
fruit. Last time i was talking to Luke he said he made a 5000litre batch and lost 800litres of that just to hop trub, he said there's a SH#T TON of hops in there.

But yes, it is a bloody awesome DIPA!

Had some of the new batch, and its big on citra!, with tht lingering ?riwaka bitterness. I'm thinking southern cross as the other hop, used only for bittering?
I'm under the impression as well that the other american hop is cascade, mainly because its used in the Pale ale? kinda makes sense.

The last e mail I had from Luke was he said for most his beers he used the same hop formula/addition times. this could give u a steer as well?

 

[BillyPilgrim9]

Having just drunk the final bottle of this brew last night I can say it's pretty damn tasty, but not all that reminiscent of Hop Zombie. I think it mainly comes down to the large amount of Wai-Iti I dumped in at flame out and then dry hopped with. It gave the beer a marked lemon and lime flavour, almost like lemon and lime cordial. It was far from unpleasant, but not what I was going for. I can't wait to try the latest batch of Hop Zombie when it reaches Perth. I'll also be giving this clone another attempt, with Riwaka instead of Wai-iti - assuming I can get my hands on it.