Need help with the right PSI

[lestblight]

Been speaking with someone who suggested going higher then the average of the 60 PSI.

I have been calling around to find a regulator that will alow this downstream pressure.

But everywhere i call says that, that PSI is too high and not recommdended.

I want a high level of carbonation.. so i assume i will need more then the 60 PSI .

The soda you get at diners never has the same kick that coke from the can has.

I have been going back and forth with the ownder of fizzgiz ( he is very informative). He is reccomending going at 150 PSI.

Anyone familiar with this?

Just want to make sure i am going in the right direction.

Thanks

 

[hoppymonkey]

I don't do soda, but with beer a very spritzer beer is at like 15 PSI at the most. Any more than that and you are all foam or worse.

 

[lestblight]

I think beer is at a very low PSI. from what i read.. maybe this is why .. but i do believe coke uses 150 PSI for their bottling.

not 100% sure though.

 

[hoppymonkey]

This says it is 14.7 PSI

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/SeemaMeraj.shtml

 

[lestblight]

thank you.. although i am confused now !

anyone work with 14 psi ? 60 psi ? 100? 150?

whata re the differences?

I can always just get a 150 regulator and experiment myself.. but wondering what yileds good results.

thanks

 

[MrFoodScientist]

What are you carbonating in?

A corny keg is only rated to 130psi. And the lid's OPRV will probably release at 110-120.

If you're using a carbonator cap with a PET bottle, you should probably be careful with that as well. I wouldn't go over 110psi with that if I were you. Have you ever seen a dry ice bomb? Same principle.

The highest I've gone in a keg is 60psi with just water. Anything above that and you'll lose most of your carbonation when pouring especially without an extreme length of serving line plus adding epoxy mixers to the dip tube.

Which is why the soda you get at diners never has the same kick that coke from the can has.

 

[lestblight]

i will be carbonating in a pet bottle using fizz giz caps.

spoke to mike at fizgiz and he recommends the 150 psi for the stronger carb.

 

[hoppymonkey]

i will be carbonating in a pet bottle using fizz giz caps.

spoke to mike at fizgiz and he recommends the 150 psi for the stronger carb.

Yeah something was comminicated wrong here. I would start at 15PSI and slow work it up to where you like it avoid messes and/or explosions. I have a pretty nasty scar on my hand as proof of too much PSI.

 

[lestblight]

no.. he specifically told me 150.

15 is low isnt it? i thought the standard was 60...

can you tell me the details for your accident ?

what were you carbonating? beer? soda? what kind of recepticle? at what psi?

thanks

 

[hoppymonkey]

Once again I make beer not soda, but 15PSI is standard for soda or BMC type beers.( I.E you can shake it up and make a mess). I got hurt with a overcarbonated beer bottle that blew up in my hand when I popped the top.

I carbonate with one of these.

http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=325

 

[lestblight]

Thanks for the response.

I picked up a kit here.http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=247

They specify 30 to 40 PSI...and their regulator peaks at 60- so i am returning it.

Now

I am getting mixed info everywhere...

I have called Gas suppliers.. who say most restaraunts dispense at 60 psi. and sell regulators that peak at 60 psi.

I have spoke to mike from fizzgizz and he recomends chnaging the pressure to get a better carbonation.. He goes for between 130 and 150 psi. H e says anything above 150 would warp the bottle and cause an explosion.

SO i will be using a regulator and hose that can support the desired psi and carbnating in a PET bottle.

So i am looking at regulators that can dispense up to 150 psi or about 9/10 atmospheres.

I figure i can try dispensing at 14... or 45 or 60 .. or 100 or 130 and see what works better .

But not sure of the harm.. provided it doesnt burst. which should happen after 150 psi...

Can you see any potential harm in the 150? or the benefit?

thanks again.

 

[hoppymonkey]

As long as all of hardware and bottles are rated for it, I don't see anything wrong. DO you have to leave the pressure on for a set amount of time with soda? It takes between 1-2 weeks with beer to carbonate properly. Also the temperature of the actual liquid matters as well as to forcing pressure used. The higher the temp of the liquid, the higher the PSI needed to achieve carbonation. If beer is at room temp, then I push the pressure up to 30 PSI force carb and then lower it to 10PSI to despense. Sorry, I guess I should have mentioned that earlier. Also, Restaurants probably use a Nitrogen/CO2 mix that does go up to those high pressures to push thier already carbonated beverages through long tubes. I am betting this is why you are getting mixed reviews. I am talking about pure CO2 and they talking about beer gas( nitrogen/CO2 mix).

 

[dallasdb]

Do you know how long of a line you'd have to have if you carbed at 150 psi???

That would be around 100-150 ft of beverage line!!!

 

[DakotaRules]

Are your lines even rated that high? How about your kegs? This sounds like a bad idea.

 

[mattd2]

At 150 psi you are looking at 14 volumes of CO2 @ 44 degrees F. That is pretty fizzy.
Is the fizzGiz guy really telling to take it to 150 psi, I doubt that he really is meaning that after seeing this on his website http://www.fizzgiz.com/PepsiBottlePopper00.htm

 

[rycov]

Beer is car bed much lower than soda. my beers are usually at 12, but from what I read soda (cold and in a keg)is usually around thirty something, with longer lines as well. at room temperature it would be different, but 150 sou nods pretty high. I'm not familiar with. the set up you have, but I would check to make sure all your stuff is rated for that pressure, just to be safe. having something blow up in your face is a great way to ruin your hobby. also try doing a search on here to see if any one else is using the same equipment you are. good luck!

 

[mattd2]

Thanks for the response.

I picked up a kit here.http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=247

They specify 30 to 40 PSI...and their regulator peaks at 60- so i am returning it.

So have you tried to carb it at the recomended 30 psi yet? and how long are you leaving it to carb as it can take some time to fully carb up? I would go that route first becuase going higher you will diffinatly need to make sure your hoses are rated for the pressure and a clamped to all your fittings properly. Also you should be able to swap the LP gauge on the regulator to one with a different scale, I have seen 0-15, 0-30, 0-60, 0-100 off the top of my head http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=328&zenid=9f69f19433fe855ce36fc047fd5e0128

 

[lumpher]

i'm not going to be anywhere within a block of anything primed to go to 150 psi. i've been around bottles at less than 20 psi when they explode louder than a shotgun going off, and send glass shrapnel 40 feet or more. i know you said pet bottles, though. make sure they're rated for more than the pressure you're going to use

 

[Yooper]

I carb my soda with 30 psi and it's fizzy. It requires about 25' of 3/16" line to dispense. The kegerator is at 39 degrees.

I don't know what kind of system would use 150 psi, but certainly no homebrewers system! Kegs are only rated to about 120 psi, and I can't imagine what kind of mess there would be if you tried to bottle that.

We must be talking about different things here, as I can't imagine any professional telling you to blow up your kegerator/kegs.

 

[MrFoodScientist]

...He says anything above 150 would warp the bottle and cause an explosion.

SO i will be using a regulator and hose that can support the desired psi and carbnating in a PET bottle.

So i am looking at regulators that can dispense up to 150 psi or about 9/10 atmospheres.


...Can you see any potential harm in the 150? or the benefit?

thanks again.

Yes I can see potential harm in 150psi, like losing a limb. If he's telling you anything above 150 will explode, why push it to the limit, what if one of your bottles weakens, what if something goes wrong. Whoops! there goes your hand. What advice will Mike give you then? Will he pay for that trip to the ER?

You should stop listening to this Mike guy, because he's obviously a wreckless idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. 9 or 10 volumes?

A can of coke holds about 3.7 volumes. Do your homework.http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/SeemaMeraj.shtml

http://technologyinterface.nmsu.edu/Spring06/12_Dues-Accepted/index.pdf

Aside from the safety aspect, it's just wasteful.

Let's think about this... You have a vessel at 150psig which forces the CO2 to dissolve until it is saturated. Even if it was close to its freezing point, how much CO2 do you think is going to stay in solution once you release it to 14psia long enough for you to get it up to your mouth. You'll lose half your beverage onto the floor.

There are charts that explain how much pressure you need to carbonate something to a specific number of volumes at a specific temperature. Have you seen these charts or even thought about how they're made? These charts exist because they describe the natural equilibrium that exists for CO2 gas dissolved into a liquid. Feel free to extrapolate to estimate just how cold your beverage would have to be to hold 9 or 10 volumes at atmospheric pressure.(about 14 psia or 0 psig)

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the simple physics of it. You simply cannot keep that much CO2 dissolved in a liquid, particularly one that's already packed with sugar.

I can't imagine any professional telling you to blow up your kegerator/kegs.

I can. A salesman. A salesman will lie or make up stuff when he doesn't know what he's talking about. I see it all the time. People do ridiculous things for money.

 

[lestblight]

Thank You all for the information and advice.

I wont be using a kegerator.. and not sure what you mean by beverage line. What does a kegerator do exactly?

I will be keeping my liquid at 32 degrees F in a 2 liter PLASTIC PET bottle.. dispensing the co2 into the liquid ( homemade flavor) using a proper hose and using a co2 tank.

Does the PSI change if the vessel is bigger? A can has 40 on the link above.. but i am going for 2 liter.

I will try a low PSI to begin.. 40 PSI - as suggested.. and experiment with going higher.
I think i will be able to see results at 40-60 and determine what i need from there.

If the plastic bottle breaks.. i think i would notice it warping and getting tighter so i would stop pumping pressure in.

How does this sound?

Also.. how long do you let it settle before you remove the cap? to avoid eruption?

thanks.

 

[DakotaRules]

I convinced now this has got to be a joke.

 

[lestblight]

not a joke at all.

i find everyone says something diferent..keg connection says 30 to 40.. in this thread a lower psi is recomended.

double checked my info and found he Has tested up until 150 psi.. but says to work at 130 or under.

 

[mattd2]

Thank You all for the information and advice.

I wont be using a kegerator.. and not sure what you mean by beverage line. What does a kegerator do exactly?

I will be keeping my liquid at 32 degrees F in a 2 liter PLASTIC PET bottle.. dispensing the co2 into the liquid ( homemade flavor) using a proper hose and using a co2 tank.

Does the PSI change if the vessel is bigger? A can has 40 on the link above.. but i am going for 2 liter.

I will try a low PSI to begin.. 40 PSI - as suggested.. and experiment with going higher.
I think i will be able to see results at 40-60 and determine what i need from there.

If the plastic bottle breaks.. i think i would notice it warping and getting tighter so i would stop pumping pressure in.

How does this sound?

Also.. how long do you let it settle before you remove the cap? to avoid eruption?

thanks.

not a joke at all.

i find everyone says something diferent..keg connection says 30 to 40.. in this thread a lower psi is recomended.

double checked my info and found he Has tested up until 150 psi.. but says to work at 130 or under.

Thats what I thought he would have been saying, don't go over 150 psi MAX, don't even go close!
If you want the same level of carb as a can and it is 40 psi for the can you need to use 40 psi for your bottle, the co2 dissolved doesn't care about volume. It will take longer to carb larger volumes though. Most people on here look at about 2-3 weeks minimum for the set and forget method with carbing beer in kegs.
What I suggest is get that setup that you linked to on keg connect (ignore all those post about beverag lines and kegs as you don't have these);
fill as per the instructions in the kit (Hopefully they tell you to leave a some headroom of air above the liquid in the bottle, make sure you do this);
set the pressure to 40 psi while standing clear of the PET bottle to make sure it doesn''t explode for whatever reason;
then take the bottle and shake it until you can not hear the CO2 hissing from the tank anymore;
Disconnect and leave in the fridge for an hour then cheak if it is carbed to you liking, if not reconnect to 40 psi and shake some more.

Good luck

 

[lestblight]

thank you

 

[Bobby_M]

The fizz giz site even says that their dispenser has a safety on it so that it won't ever get above 55psi. If the guy supplying the kits can't even read his own FAQ, I wouldn't listen to him about anything.

The reason you're getting varying information is because there are several techniques for carbing and some of them use elevated pressures to speed the carbonation along. Since you're using those fizz giz caps, you have no way of leaving the pressure applied over time so you'll probably be doing the shake method. Apply 40psi to a cold bottle of soda and shake it for about 5 minutes. Remove the gas and leave it in the fridge for 20 minutes.

 

[shafferpilot]

I can see what's happening here. If you charge a room temp 2-liter up to a hundred psi... it doesn't STAY at 100 psi. as soon as you chill it down and the CO2 dissolves, the remaining pressure will be MUCh MUCH lower. Here's the story:

This salesman guy is telling him to charge the bottle up a bunch so that all he has to do is pop it in the fridge and come back tomorrow to carbed up soda. It's the wrong way to do it. It has potential for danger. But I get it.

The right way to do it... ie the way all the experienced folks here are describing... is to chill the drink down to fridge temp, charge the bottle to 40 (or 25 or 30 or whatever) psi and shake it up disolving the CO2. Then charge it up to 40 and shake some more. Repeat this until the pressure stops dropping and you have properly carbed soda.

BTW it's been said, but it bears repeating. DO NOT under any circumstances charge any unrated container up to pressures like what you are suggesting. It IS a bomb at that point, it WILL explode, it WILL hurt someone. Period. End of discussion. That's all. here's a video.

Don't even think about messing around with this kind of power. You clearly don't know what you are getting into.