Need help from bakers!

[wickman6]

I stumbled upon this bread recipe that I would like to try to convert using some spent grain.
As the starter calls for honey or malt syrup, could I use a bit of wort, simmered down to a syrup as a replacement? I don't see why not.
Also, how much of the flour might I take out and replace with the spent grain? I've baked quite a few breads so I'm familiar with good dough consistancy, however I'm far from a pro!
I think this could be a good one, any tips would be well received!

Thanks, and Cheers!

German farmer-style rye bread)

1 large loaf

Ingredients

Dough Starter

Bread flour -- 3/4 cup

Rye flour -- 3/4 cup

Honey or malt syrup -- 3 tablespoons

Water, lukewarm -- 1 1/2 cups

Instant yeast -- 1/2 teaspoon

Flour mixture

Bread flour -- 2 1/2 cups

Caraway seeds -- 2 tablespoons

Salt -- 1 1/2 teaspoons

Instant yeast -- 1/2 teaspoon

Oil -- 1 tablespoon

Cornmeal -- for the baking tray

Method

Add the ingredients for the starter to a large bowl and mix together until smooth. Set aside for 10 minutes for the yeast to activate.

While the starter is resting, mix together the remaining ingredients except for the oil and cornmeal. Pour the flour mixture over the starter. Do not stir. Cover with plastic wrap or a clean towel and set aside for at least two hours and up to five hours. The starter will bubble up through the flour mixture.

Add the oil to the flour mixture and use a wooden spoon to stir the flour mixture into the starter. As the mixture comes together, remove the dough to a lightly floured work surface and knead for about 10 minutes, or until smooth and elastic. The dough might be a little sticky. Knead in just enough extra flour to keep the dough from sticking to your hands.

Set the dough aside to rest for about 10 minutes, then knead for another 5 to 10 minutes.

Set the dough in a large, lightly oiled bowl and lightly oil the top of the dough. Cover with plastic wrap or a clean towel and set in a draft-free area of the kitchen to rise until doubled in size, about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Remove the dough to a lightly floured work surface. Punch down the dough and lightly knead it 3 or 4 times. Form into a ball, return to the bowl, cover and let rise for another 45 minutes or so.

Preheat oven to 450°F and set the shelf at the lowest level. Put a small metal pan in the oven (you will use this later). Lightly press down on the dough and form it into a ball. Sprinkle the cornmeal onto a baking sheet and set the dough onto the baking sheet. Lightly oil the top of the dough and cover it with plastic wrap. Set aside to rise for another hour.

Use a sharp knife or razor blade to slash the top of the dough in 3 parallel lines about 1/4-inch thick. Then slash with another set of 3 lines perpendicular to the first set. Use a spray bottle to mist the dough with water.

Set the baking sheet in the oven and pour about 1 cup of water into the small pan to create steam. Shut the door immediately and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce heat to 400°F and bake for another 35 to 45 minutes. (An insta-read thermometer inserted into the middle of the loaf should register 190°F.)

Set the loaf on a cooling rack and let cool completely.

Variations

For even better flavor, let the starter ferment for an hour a room temperature. Then set it in the refrigerator to ferment slowly for another 8 to 24 hours. Return it to room temperature before proceeding with the recipe.

Vary the proportion of rye flour and bread flour to your liking. Or eliminate the rye flour altogether and use all bread flour. You can also make a whole wheat loaf by replacing about 1/2 of the bread flour with whole wheat flour. You will need to add a little more water if you do.

Mix 3 tablespoons sesame seeds, sunflower seeds, linseeds, flaxseeds, cracked wheat, rye or spelt into the flour mixture for added texture.

For a darker crust, brush the dough with some buttermilk, yogurt or dark coffee just before baking.

Use a baking stone for even better crust development. Set the stone in the oven about an hour before baking to preheat it thoroughly. After the final rise, move the dough directly to the stone to bake.

Appetizers

 

[bjl110]

Don't see why you couldn't boil down to a syrup as long as you don't burn it. Sugar is pretty much all you are after.

If it were me, I'd just add a half cup spent grain (or whatever), and then be ready to add flour or water until it is a good consistency. I've tried taking flour out to add grains (or substituting whole wheat flour based on weight, stuff like that) before and I usually end up adjusting anyway. But then, I bake like a cook really. So, there's that.

 

[autobaun70]

unhopped wort would be key......

 

[wickman6]

unhopped wort would be key......

Damn, good call. I'm usually pretty on top of things but I can see myself messing up on that one!

 

[billtzk]

Malt syrup is LME. Liquid Malt Extract - usually found in cans or bulk at your LHBS. As others said, make sure it's unhopped, unless you want to experiment with hop-flavored bread. Who knows? It might taste good.

I would not replace any flour with spent grain. Just add spent grain. As a matter of fact, if your spent grains are very wet, you may have to increase the flour slightly. As a starting point, I would try adding 1/2 to 3/4 cup of grains to the recipe. Also spread out some grains in a fairly dense single layer on your dough board and roll your formed loaf across it gently so the grains adhere to the outside of the loaf. Then bake after second rise.

 

[wickman6]

Malt syrup is LME. Liquid Malt Extract - usually found in cans or bulk at your LHBS. As others said, make sure it's unhopped, unless you want to experiment with hop-flavored bread. Who knows? It might taste good.

I figured LME and malt syrup are the same, at least in this application. Its been a while since I've brewed extracts, but I do remember the consistancy to be that of molasses or honey, so I also assumed the sugar content to be roughly comparable. Since I'm all grain now, and haven't bought LME in some time I figured why not try to make my own? What my primary goal here is to make a great bread while intertwining as much of the brewing process as possible. I figure I can make my own malt syrup with a bit of the runoff of my MLT, first runnings would be easiest to reduce, but they are oh so precious..... Then use the same exact grains that produced the syrup as spent grains in the bread.

Thanks for the tip though!

 

[wickman6]

Oh, and I'm not affraid at all to try to introduce some hop flavors to bread!! In fact, next brew session I think I will do just that. I'll do one loaf made with syrup from after my first addition of hops, the other I'll pull the wort that's syrup bound before that. I'm actually quite intrigued now!

I'm thinking that the small amount of syrup called for in the recipe will probably not yield much hop flavor though.

 

[Batinse]

+1 to those saying not to replace spent grains with flour. I've made spent grain bread before and it's quite tasty, but adding about a cup is all you should be after--and as an extra, the way you'd add nuts or seeds.

Personally, I wouldn't add LME as a sweetener--I generally don't add a sugar to my bread. I'd be afraid the wort-syrup would override any flavours in the bread--which honey shouldn't do. If you do add some, I wouldn't add much. But that's a matter of private taste.

 

[wickman6]

+1 to those saying not to replace spent grains with flour. I've made spent grain bread before and it's quite tasty, but adding about a cup is all you should be after--and as an extra, the way you'd add nuts or seeds.

Personally, I wouldn't add LME as a sweetener--I generally don't add a sugar to my bread. I'd be afraid the wort-syrup would override any flavours in the bread--which honey shouldn't do. If you do add some, I wouldn't add much. But that's a matter of private taste.

The sugar is in the starter portion of the bread, and it should only be enough for the yeast to eat in order to do their leavening. I'm not looking for any added sweetener, just what's called for to achieve this. I'm with you, not a big fan of sweet breads...cinnamon rolls and doughnuts excluded of course!

I have made quite a few loaves of spent grain bread before as well, with awesome results! But I have followed a recipe specifically for spent grain bread. What I'm trying to do here is convert a recipe not calling for spent grain into a bread that uses it, while maintaining a good texture.

 

[wickman6]

I will go ahead and NOT replace any of the flour, but add in the grains. This actually makes a lot of sense after I think about it.

Jumping ahead, my next plot is to mill my own flour. At least a portion of it.

 

[billtzk]

I use a Country Living Grain Mill for whole wheat flour and rye, and I highly recommend it. It is a bit of a workout if you hand crank it. I've seen several DIY solutions using stationary bicycles, but you could also motorize it.

 

[wickman6]

Ok, so I decided to go ahead and make this bread. Life got in the way of brewing today so I have no wort to reduce into syrup...opted for the honey this time. I added 2 cups of spent grain, measured before running in the food processor and changed nothing else. I added them to the starter, mainly cause they seemed at home more as a wet ingredient than dry. The dough is set to go into the oven in a couple hours...will post results upon consumption.