my buddy's demon child

[WCrane]

I think the 1/3 idea for "bad" teacher and "bad parents is about right from my experience. With 1/3 thats in the middle and the other 1/3 that excel.


Ok i'm going to try to dust of the teacher skills and bring this back to the OP's post. Full circle
In the situation the op described the parents were lacking a bit, and when the OP jumped in to influence the behavior, it did not have the affect it "should of". Now if the parents where "with it" Kid would of stop or the parents would of redirected the child or found a way to involve the child in the activity. But since the parents are not on the ball every time the kid comes to the OPs house, the OP may have to step in (like a teacher has to with a distruptive student). it ruined what could of been an great evening

A parent should strive to be the main teacher in a child's life, and a teacher is like an added bonus.

Here's a bit of a stretch but To use a beer analogy parents are the the malts, teachers are the hops. Parents make up a large portion of what is in the beer, hops are that little extra that polishes off the beer. In the right proportions its amazing.

When either lacks the final product lacks. I think more so when the malt is lacking. But a bad beer can ruin the party for everyone.

 

[WCrane]

Simple answer: because that is the parents job. I don't need some communist teacher teaching my kid about political correctness and socialism. Teachers, especially in public union-driven schools, have a very bad habit of imparting their personal views on the children, and that is completely unacceptable. Not coincidentally, you even included the word social in the quote above. That has no place in the classroom at all. When teachers get off their high horses and realize that they should only be teaching what is in the textbooks, then maybe I won't have to watch over my kids educators so closely, and maybe I will trust them (a bit).

In all due respect, I'd move. Things are not like that everywhere.

 

[BeerWars]

In the situation the op described the parents were lacking a bit, and when the OP jumped in to influence the behavior, it did not have the affect it "should of". Now if the parents where "with it" Kid would of stop or the parents would of redirected the child or found a way to involve the child in the activity. But since the parents are not on the ball every time the kid comes to the OPs house, the OP may have to step in (like a teacher has to with a distruptive student). it ruined what could of been an great evening

I agree with this 100%

Everyone is so concerned about whose "job" "roll" or "responsibility" it is to deal with the child; they lose sight of the fact that this guys (as well as everyone elses) night was ruined because nobody handled the situation appropriately. Who knows how good of a time he and his friends may have had with a little patience and creativity.

 

[cimirie]

Simple answer: because that is the parents job. I don't need some communist teacher teaching my kid about political correctness and socialism. Teachers, especially in public union-driven schools, have a very bad habit of imparting their personal views on the children, and that is completely unacceptable. Not coincidentally, you even included the word social in the quote above. That has no place in the classroom at all. When teachers get off their high horses and realize that they should only be teaching what is in the textbooks, then maybe I won't have to watch over my kids educators so closely, and maybe I will trust them (a bit).

Just to be clear, you're saying you are perfectly comfortable with teachers doing the bare minimum and not taking an active interest in their student's lives and situation beyond the chapter test? You're perfectly comfortable having a large percentage of kids graduating without any semblance of work ethic, acceptable social behaviors, and a sense if right and wrong. I gotta tell you, if that's the case, I feel bad.

Sure, I would much rather have parents do that job. They should do that job. But when they don't, I find it completely unacceptable that the adults who see these children more than anybody outside the home sit by and do nothing. I see that as completely apathetic and lazy and totally opposite the theory beyond teaching.

The best teachers around are those that teach life- not just textbooks. The ones that do nothing but teach words or numbers in a book are doing enough to collect a paycheck. Those are the teachers I wish we had less of. God, I can't believe how absolutely far apart we are in this!

 

[NorCalAngler]

What I learned about the OP from this thread:

1. You probably didn't handle the situation in the best way, but that's because you're not a parent and all of the alternatives suggested here come from trial and error lessons as a parent.

2. You don't like the wife and that weighed on your decision to yell at the kid.

3. For whatever reason, you didn't ask your brew buddy to help you out and get his kid out of your hops. I guarantee you that as a friend he would have been quick to act with a simple, "hey, can you help me out and get Billy out of the hops?" If he didn't react to that, then F him.

What I learned about myself from this thread: I have learned a LOT as a parent of a toddler.

 

[superjunior]

What I learned about the OP from this thread:

1. You probably didn't handle the situation in the best way, but that's because you're not a parent and all of the alternatives suggested here come from trial and error lessons as a parent.

2. You don't like the wife and that weighed on your decision to yell at the kid.

3. For whatever reason, you didn't ask your brew buddy to help you out and get his kid out of your hops. I guarantee you that as a friend he would have been quick to act with a simple, "hey, can you help me out and get Billy out of the hops?" If he didn't react to that, then F him.

What I learned about myself from this thread: I have learned a LOT as a parent of a toddler.

1. perhaps not, but the parents who were sitting right there should not have let it get that far
2. wrong, the wife is a good friend also, and for the 10th time I didn't yell at the kid, I SLIGHTLY raised my voice and told him to knock it off
3. I looked at my Friends twice and they were well aware I wanted the boy off me and out of the hops, it was quite obvious to everyone sitting there...

 

[Airborneguy]

Just to be clear, you're saying you are perfectly comfortable with teachers doing the bare minimum and not taking an active interest in their student's lives and situation beyond the chapter test?

My kids, yes. I don't want a teacher doing anything more than teaching what is required and keeping them in line during class time, that's it.

You're perfectly comfortable having a large percentage of kids graduating without any semblance of work ethic, acceptable social behaviors, and a sense if right and wrong. I gotta tell you, if that's the case, I feel bad.

Not my problem. Actually, in a round-about-way, this actually keeps me employed and making overtime, but that's a different story...

Sure, I would much rather have parents do that job. They should do that job. But when they don't, I find it completely unacceptable that the adults who see these children more than anybody outside the home sit by and do nothing. I see that as completely apathetic and lazy and totally opposite the theory beyond teaching.

That's the concern of parents who don't take proper interest in thier children's lives, not mine.

The best teachers around are those that teach life- not just textbooks.

In college, when the student is old enough to formulate their own opinions and not be unduly influenced by the teacher merely because the teacher is an authority figure, I have no problem with this. But in grammar school certainly, and to a lesser extent, in high school, this is not their concern.

God, I can't believe how absolutely far apart we are in this!

We certainly don't have to agree on it, so I don't see how it surprises you so much. There's people who home school because of concerns like mine; imagine how far apart you are from them!

 

[cheezydemon3]

When my kids act out, I realize that I could have parented better at some point myself, mostly by not ever raising my voice or losing my temper.

Yelling or spanking exibits the 2 worst behaviors we are trying to avoid with our kids.

"Do as I say not as I do" is worse than denial, it is actively destructive.

Parents who say "my kid was horrible at such and such age" or "right now" for that matter, are admitting to being bad parents, whether they know it or not.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

One of the problems teachers face today, moreso than in the past, is that the classroom is so diverse. You might have christians, muslims, jews, hindu, etc. as well as all different races/cultures in one classroom. They all have differences in what is considered 'acceptable social behaviors' and 'right and wrong'. Example, you try to teach 'strong work ethic' and you get parents complaining that you're pushing junior too hard, "He's just a little boy".

Heck, just look at the different perspectives itt on this particular subject. Cheezy in post above says yelling/spanking is bad where other parents feel the lack of those very things is part of what's 'wrong' with today's kids.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I have just seen the evidence.

The kids who were spanked alot by strict parents and "behaved" out of fear exploded out of the gate at college or when out of the house. Do I mean exploded out of the gate academically or professionally? No, I mean sexually and drug/alcohol wise. I was spanked some until age of 6 or so.

My own kids' behavior goes downhill when I lose it and yell.

If calm spoken word (laughing and joking aside) is all that is spoken in a house, yelling sounds wrong, even to the kids' ears.

If we yell and scream, then that is the norm and acceptable to the kids' ears.

 

[Airborneguy]

I have just seen the evidence.

The kids who were spanked alot by strict parents and "behaved" out of fear exploded out of the gate at college or when out of the house. Do I mean exploded out of the gate academically or professionally? No, I mean sexually and drug/alcohol wise. I was spanked some until age of 6 or so.

I was spanked, and even got a few beatings, last one at around 17. At 19 I joined the Army, have never been in trouble in my life, and have supported myself since the day I walked out the door. all while maintaining great, close relationships with both parents.

My point? None of your evidence proves anything, same as mine, because everyone has a different opinion on how to raise children.

My only strict point is that it is the parent's responsibility to do this, not teachers.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I was spanked, and even got a few beatings, last one at around 17. At 19 I joined the Army, have never been in trouble in my life, and have supported myself since the day I walked out the door. all while maintaining great, close relationships with both parents.

My point? None of your evidence proves anything, same as mine, because everyone has a different opinion on how to raise children.

My only strict point is that it is the parent's responsibility to do this, not teachers.

You are absolutely right! everyone is different. But in your case you went into the military where it is difficult or impossible to behave so poorly you get kicked out.

Had you gone to college or just moved out on your own, you might have acted out too.

Sorry to hear your life was that hard.

People who were spanked or beaten (I had a hard time overcoming it, I was spanked) tend to want to keep that tradition alive. It is natural.

"It was good enough for me, it is good enough for my kids"

Same as racism, bigotry, sexism, or any number of other negative "traditions", it is hard to escape your upbringing.

How do you teach a child not to hit by showing them that adults hit/spank?

Sorry, it doesn't add up.

There is a difference between parents who don't spank and parents who don't discipline.

Just this morning, my 9 year old lost freinds for the day, and got an overnight cancelled for friday.

That will sting much longer and much more effectively than if I had spanked her.

 

[Airborneguy]

Sorry to hear your life was that hard.

My life wasn't, and isn't, hard at all. I've loved every minute of it. My point was that hitting a kid does not make them into a sexual deviant, which was the point you were trying to make.

 

[Shooter]

Parents who say "my kid was horrible at such and such age" or "right now" for that matter, are admitting to being bad parents, whether they know it or not.

Boy, you are so full of it!

So, saying their kid was behaving badly makes them a bad parent?!?! Maybe they're new to this, maybe they're just learning, maybe they don't live on Mt. Perfection like cheezydemon3 and are worthless fallible humans. They haven't quite figured it all out yet. So, let's give them the appropriate degrading title. Oh, my, why would you even SPEAK to someone that messed up?

Blanket statements like this aren't really going to help your argument. It's quite wonderful that you have found THE correct child rearing method. You certainly lead a blessed life, but, perhaps, just perhaps mind you, you might find it in your perfect heart to cut those of us who haven't obtained God like status a little slack.

Come on cheezydemon3, really, aren't you better than this statement, seriously?

XOXO
Shooter <-Often described as the perfect parent BTW, but mostly by himself.

 

[Shooter]

My life wasn't, and isn't, hard at all. I've loved every minute of it. My point was that hitting a kid does not make them into a sexual deviant, which was the point you were trying to make.

No, no, no, you're messed up, cheezydemon3 knows your inner pain. He knows all about you. After all, he's had this exchange with you on the interwebs hasn't he?!??! He is, therefore, entitiled to assume he knows your life inside and out, who you are, what makes you tick. I'm sure he knows ALL the dark workings of you soul!

Why oh why do I feel this thread has become so worthy of mockery?!?!?

 

[Hang Glider]

just a thought -

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I was spanked at home and in school and it made me a degenerate homebrewer. Bad parenting, bad!

IMO, spanking or not spanking is not even the tip of the iceberg of the entire 'parenting package'. But what do I know, I've never had kids.

 

[Shooter]

But what do I know, I've never had kids.

Don't do it!!!!

 

[NorCalAngler]

Here I thought I was on the right path when it came to parenting and cheezy shows me that I'm a bad parent because my 2 1/2 year old is pushing boundaries. I can't believe I missed the window of opportunity where I inject my little guy with the all-knowing serum of decency and social norms.

Cheezy, is there any hope now? My toddler has meals where he doesn't eat well, he asks for things and then gets upset when he can't have them and he even (I can't believe I'm admitting this...) he even... makes it difficult to change his clothes some mornings! With your perspective I'm seeing that I think he's broken beyond repair. Yesterday he jumped on the couch until I told him to stop. I know, right? He should have already known that jumping on the couch isn't ok.

 

[Shooter]

With your perspective I'm seeing that I think he's broken beyond repair. Yesterday he jumped on the couch until I told him to stop. I know, right? He should have already known that jumping on the couch isn't ok.

You're in luck. He's not bad. It's you. YOUR the bad parent. I hope that helps!

 

[MeatyPortion]