ESB Help

[rodwha]

I've been wanting to make an ESB and have ordered some S-04 to have on hand. Looking at various recipes I'll need to use British grains, which means I'll need to try my first all grain (BIAB). It just doesn't seem right to use an extract of American grain...

Now that brings me to the water. I read a portion of a thread I was directed to some time ago, but I felt I was trying to read and comprehend another language.

I have hard water that I've been filtering from the tap with my partial mashes/extracts. It seems hard water would be bad for a light beer like this. Would using 1/2 or all RO water do me well or will I need to Dr up the water with stuff?

4 gal boil, 2 gal top off for 5.5 gal batch

9 lbs Marris Otter pale
1/2 lb crystal 40
1/2 lb honey malt
1/2 lb special roast
1/4 lb carapils
1/2 lb Bavarian wheat DME (flame out)
1 oz Northern Brewer @ 60 mins
1 oz Kent Goldings @ 15/5 mins
S-04

Mash in 3.5 gal of water (BIAB) and use another 1/2 gal to sparge and bring up to 4 gal for boil.

I also considered using up to 1/2 lb of victory, but 86'd it.

The only ESB's I've had were Foster's (I know, I know, but I like it), and another at a brewpub. I'm not trying to replicate anything in particular.

 

[tre9er]

I have relatively hard water, not awful but my dishes spot and soap doesn't lather too well without the softener...and I use it for all of my beers. Can't give you a lab analysis, though Lincoln's water stats are all over the internet, at least I've seen them a few times, that is.

I love EKG hops in an ESB. I did one last year and it was Pale Ale Malt or MO, can't remember, and I toasted some of it because I was out of roasted malt. It turned out dark, roasty, dry, and earthy hoppy, but not too hoppy. Good luck.

 

[rodwha]

So you used your relatively hard water for the full brew water?

I'm thinking my hard water is quite hard.

Were I to use filtered hard water with high levels of calcium and lime would it not give it an ugly taste?

 

[rodwha]

Were I to use 1/2 RO water would it be better to use it in the boil or as the top off, or does it matter?

 

[phuff7129]

We don't know anything about your water except for the fact it is hard. Unless you can lay your hands on your water supply's lab report or if you want to send a sample to Ward Labs for analysis it would be impossible to help you use your tap water. I would suggest using RO or Distilled as it will make it much easier to adjust your water. I strongly recommend reading this sticky thread about brewing water, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

It will give you a simple easy primer into adjusting water for brewing. I know how you feel. Water chemistry made my head hurt but I buckled down and did the reading and learned it and now I brew better beer. There are several good tools to help you adjust your water. Brunwater has an excellent spreadsheet and lots of good info. Just google Brunwater. Brewers friend has a tool on their website as well and Palmers How to Brew website has great info and tools. Good luck!

 

[rodwha]

If I were to instead use 4 lbs of ultralight LME and for the remainder used MO and the various grains, wouldn't it negate the need to Dr up the water or the need to use RO water?

 

[tre9er]

I think you don't want a really light, crisp tasting water for an english beer. If your RO water tastes like Dasani, use some of your hard water for the mash, then sparge with the RO. That's my advice without any of the necessary info on your water.

Yes, I used my moderately hard water for every brew I've ever done. Unfiltered, unsoftened.

 

[rodwha]

If you have done so without bad results I'll give it a try.

I've seen my water report, and it's open on another page, but it's all Greek... What are the things that cause a lighter beer to taste unenchanted besides chlorine?

 

[phuff7129]

If I were to instead use 4 lbs of ultralight LME and for the remainder used MO and the various grains, wouldn't it negate the need to Dr up the water or the need to use RO water?

If you want to make it easy and do it right just buy Maris Otter LME, http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/northern-brewer-maris-otter-malt-syrup.html, Then steep all of your other grains.

 

[rodwha]

The place i get my stuff from (MoreBeer) doesn't carry it, nor does the LHBS.

 

[rodwha]

In that thread it states that the pH needs to be 5.1-5.5. I see that mine is 7.4-7.9. Can I use 1:2 ratio of RO water to bring me close to that range or does it not work that way?

 

[rodwha]

What do I need to control that may be in the water so as not to make a nasty all grain ESB?

 

[rodwha]

What is CaCO3? I don't see that on my water report.

 

[rodwha]

"Light Ale: For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride"

Does this hold true when using 1/2 hard water/RO water?

Does it hold true for an English IPA?

 

[rodwha]

Continuing reading in that thread and there are people talking about how it makes so much more sense to them...I'm left scratching my chin hairs...

 

[rodwha]

Where did people begin who looked at that stuff and scratched their head??? That's really the easy beginners version?

 

[BigFloyd]

I like your selection of specialty grains. Honey malt and special roast together in an ESB are yummy. May I suggest that you drop the wheat DME entirely (out of place in an ESB IMO) and reduce the special roast to 4oz (so that the lovely flavor of the honey malt will still come through).

You're doing two ounces of EKG (one at 15 and another at 5), correct? 1 ounce split would be a bit weak. I like one ounce at 10 and another at 5.

If you need to, you can do this recipe with 7lbs of ultralight LME and it still turns out rather nice.

 

[rodwha]

I began adding wheat DME long ago to help ensure I got better head retention. Kinda just stuck with me...

I kinda like that biscuity taste, and I recently made an amber with Fat Tire in mind, though not attempting to clone it, and found that 1/2 lb of special roast didn't add enough in my 5.8 gal batch, and so I decided to double MoreBeer's recipe that called for 1/4 lb.

I do have 1 oz of EKG for both the 15 and 5 min addition. Why a 10 min over a 15?

As I'm uncertain as to how I'm going to go about making this I'm keeping the partial as an option. I'm considering 1/2 LME and half mini mash using 1/2 RO and filtered tap water since the water chemistry is quite daunting and I haven't been able to figure out what things in the water I'd need to watch out for. I see my water has a pH of 7.4-7.9, and I've read that 5.1-5.5 is ideal, which is why I'm thinking half RO water might get me closer to ideal.

 

[rodwha]

After reading some of the mash descriptions and going over the charts in Palmer's HTB I have questions....

My water shows:
calcium as 60.8-103ppm (82)
magnesium as 11.2-20.5 (16)
alkalinity as 124-262 mg/L (193)
pH of water as 7.4-7.9

First I averaged the numbers and came up with a mash pH of ~5.85. Is this right?
According to this I'm only a little high for an ESB if I understand correctly. If I do nothing and brew with filtered tap water how would it likely turn out? And if I were to use half RO water would it be better?

I saw that using darker malts would help with higher calcium concentrates. Does honey malt, crystal 40, or special roast count in this regard?

 

[rodwha]

Anyone?

 

[BigFloyd]

Are you talking about the starting pH of your brew water or the mash pH?

They are two very different things. My tap water (which I use via a filter) has a pH of 6.8. My mash pH, however, runs around the 5.1-5.3 range depending on the grain bill.

Don't get too caught up in the minutia of water chemistry. It can be both confusing and discouraging. Try using a mix of 50/50 filtered tap water and RO or bottled drinking water. If you get decent efficiency and a tasty result, run with it.

If you are pursuing a better head retention in an ESB, try adding 1/2 lb of flaked barley to the mash instead of doing the wheat DME.

 

[rodwha]

The way I understand it is that it's what the mash pH will be using base malts only. But I could be misunderstanding...

I'll take your advice and drop the wheat DME, and instead use 1/2 lb of flaked barley.