Full Blichmann Advantages vs BIAB

[StenbergBrewing]

Hello everyone. This is my first post on HBT. I recently bought a full Blichmann top tier setup with 3 Boilermakers, 2 burners, March 815 pump, and all the fancy tubing and couplings. I had money saved up (over $3000) and wanted a brand new system that will make me less ghetto and last forever. I have been brewing for years all grain with a cooler setup until now.

I brewed my first batch the other day in a HERMS method with my old chiller in the HLT up top. I had a lot of troubleshooting throughout the day but expected never brewing HERMS or on the blichmann before. At the end of the day, I was exhausted and almost second guessing my decision.

Making things worse, I brewed a 10 gal batch 100% wheat yesterday with a buddy on his BIAB (brew in a bag) system. It was incredible how easy it was. His efficiency was 80%, we could use 100% wheat (no husk), cleanup was much simpler, and the brewday was about an hour less compared to MLT methods. On top of this, the cost is potentially much less since you only need one burner and pot.

I guess my question is opposite to most BIAB brewers out there. I am looking for advantages to brewing with the full Blichmann, pump, auto sparge ie:traditional method. Effeciency difference is almost nill. I had to spend way more money and need more space etc. I know the Blichmann looks fantastic, is built with quality but I could still brew with new blichmann gear in a BIAB method and still impress my buddies.

My biggest concern is beer quality. I take it seriously. I want to brew the best beer I can. I am currently not concerned about the cost savings just beer quality! Does traditional methods produce better beer than BIAB? Is there a disadvantage to BIAB with a full wort mash (very dilute)? Is there any literature to back this up other than peoples opinion about how their beer tastes? I need to justify the purchase of this expensive Blichmann system. Help please im feeling conflicted and considering selling already if i cant find any answers...

An artistic vid we made of brewing on my Blichmann first batch: [ame="http://youtu.be/1oQ49sKJ7gg"]http://youtu.be/1oQ49sKJ7gg[/ame]

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

It's just buyers remorse...don't even worry about it.

 

[Yooper]

My biggest concern is beer quality. I take it seriously. I want to brew the best beer I can. I am currently not concerned about the cost savings just beer quality! Does traditional methods produce better beer than BIAB? Is there a disadvantage to BIAB with a full wort mash (very dilute)? Is there any literature to back this up other than peoples opinion about how their beer tastes? I need to justify the purchase of this expensive Blichmann system. Help please im feeling conflicted and considering selling already if i cant find any answers...

An artistic vid we made of brewing on my Blichmann first batch: http://youtu.be/1oQ49sKJ7gg

The beer won't be better on the Blichmann system. It won't be worse, either! I made great beer in a bucket and an old canning pot. $3000 or so later, the beer quality is about the same.

BUT- my body just can't physically do 10 gallon batches with pouring or lifting, and BIAB would be even worse. I couldn't lift a bag of 27 pounds of wet grain out of a boil kettle- and even if I could, I wouldn't want to.

My system has a couple of pumps, a HERMS, and a tippy dump. That means not doing heavy lifting, and being able to control the temperature perfectly. I can even aerate with my pump system, as well as chill via the CFC.

In other words, my system cost more than a BIAB system. But I can physically do it, and do it for a long time, and predictably and conveniently. For me, that makes it worth the money I spent.

 

[Darwin18]

My biggest concern is beer quality. I take it seriously. I want to brew the best beer I can. I am currently not concerned about the cost savings just beer quality! Does traditional methods produce better beer than BIAB?

Do you have temperature control? A chest freezer with a temperature controller will do far more for the quality and consistency of your beer than a fancy brewing system.

 

[novahokie09]

Darwin has it right. Fermentation is key in brewing. There's also the saying: " Brewers make wort. Yeast make beer."

You'd be better off spending money on a temperature controlled fermentation chamber than spending more money on a fully automated mash system. The HERMES/RIMS may be more appealing, but the fermentation chamber will have a larger impact.

Now back on topic, BIAB is a great and cheap alternative into all grain brewing. The one concern I'm aware of is tannin extraction from squeezing the bag. Not sure if it's actually an issue, but it's the only issue that comes to mind when BIAB.

 

[StenbergBrewing]

Do you have temperature control? A chest freezer with a temperature controller will do far more for the quality and consistency of your beer than a fancy brewing system.

I do have temp control. I agree there are other things with great influence on beer other than what you brew with. IE temp control, mill, yeast pitch rate / oxygenation, quality of ingredients, water Chem etc etc

 

[StenbergBrewing]

The beer won't be better on the Blichmann system. It won't be worse, either! I made great beer in a bucket and an old canning pot. $3000 or so later, the beer quality is about the same.

BUT- my body just can't physically do 10 gallon batches with pouring or lifting, and BIAB would be even worse. I couldn't lift a bag of 27 pounds of wet grain out of a boil kettle- and even if I could, I wouldn't want to.

My system has a couple of pumps, a HERMS, and a tippy dump. That means not doing heavy lifting, and being able to control the temperature perfectly. I can even aerate with my pump system, as well as chill via the CFC.

In other words, my system cost more than a BIAB system. But I can physically do it, and do it for a long time, and predictably and conveniently. For me, that makes it worth the money I spent.

Agreed. That was one of the reasons I went this way. Longevity of my back! I'm only 30 and in shape but I was getting a pretty sore back the other method. Thanks for reminding me

 

[Yooper]

Agreed. That was one of the reasons I went this way. Longevity of my back! I'm only 30 and in shape but I was getting a pretty sore back the other method. Thanks for reminding me

And really, a great brew system is fun to have but not "necessary" of course.

I'm a pretty small person, and weigh about 135 pounds. I make 10 gallon batches, so that gets really heavy. Lifting and hauling water, grain, wort, etc really was tough on me. With my system, there is still some lifting but nothing like with a BIAB system for 10 gallons! It's a trade-off, but for me it's been worth it.

Also, one of the big pluses for me is being all-electric so I brew indoors full time. My climate is not really great for outdoor brewing and water hauling, so I wanted to brew indoors.

If your new Blichmann makes brewing fun, convenient, reliable, and consistent, then that's all that matters. If I had to "work" on brewing by lifting hundreds of pounds on a brewday, that would take all of the fun and convenience out of it.

 

[schematix]

Keep at it. Every system has it's own intricacies, even the high end ones. Once you figure them out and get into the groove you'll be pumping out good beer with ease time after time.

 

[ArcLight]

>> BUT- my body just can't physically do 10 gallon batches with pouring or lifting, and BIAB would be even worse. I couldn't lift a bag of 27 pounds of wet grain out of a boil kettle- and even if I could, I wouldn't want to.

2 things -

1 - there is a technique to lifting wet grain, depending on how strong you are. You don't have to just pull it all out, you can partially lift it, and water in the top mass will run out so you can then lift it up more, let it drain further, then finally lift it out. In other words - lifting in stages is easier, though it still requires strength and endurance.

2 - If you use a winch ($10 at Lowes I think) you can gradually lift the bag out, so it drains,and doesn't stress the bag as much as a full lift. I attach it to a foldable ladder, and use a millers knot to attach it.

BIAB has another advantage - I will sometimes partially lift the bag and reseat it, so that the grains are "washed".

To me the biggest disadvantage of BIAB (I have a Blichmann 15 gal) is that I lose more temperature than an insulated cooler. I wrap it in blankets, but still lose a little, especially in winter.

 

[Yooper]

>> BUT- my body just can't physically do 10 gallon batches with pouring or lifting, and BIAB would be even worse. I couldn't lift a bag of 27 pounds of wet grain out of a boil kettle- and even if I could, I wouldn't want to.

2 things -

1 - there is a technique to lifting wet grain, depending on how strong you are. You don't have to just pull it all out, you can partially lift it, and water in the top mass will run out so you can then lift it up more, let it drain further, then finally lift it out. In other words - lifting in stages is easier, though it still requires strength and endurance.

2 - If you use a winch ($10 at Lowes I think) you can gradually lift the bag out, so it drains,and doesn't stress the bag as much as a full lift. I attach it to a foldable ladder, and use a millers knot to attach it.

BIAB has another advantage - I will sometimes partially lift the bag and reseat it, so that the grains are "washed".

To me the biggest disadvantage of BIAB (I have a Blichmann 15 gal) is that I lose more temperature than an insulated cooler. I wrap it in blankets, but still lose a little, especially in winter.

Good points! That's why it's hard to say for others what works best- as I brew indoors and I don't have a winch handy and I don't want a dripping bag of grain in my house, even if I could lift it. (Which I can't). For others, who may brew in their garage and have the size and strength and equipment, it may be perfect.

For a 3 gallon batch, a BIAB would be a very reasonable alternative for someone like me. For an 11 gallon batch, not so much!

 

[Soup4you2]

Good points! That's why it's hard to say for others what works best- as I brew indoors and I don't have a winch handy and I don't want a dripping bag of grain in my house, even if I could lift it. (Which I can't). For others, who may brew in their garage and have the size and strength and equipment, it may be perfect.

For a 3 gallon batch, a BIAB would be a very reasonable alternative for someone like me. For an 11 gallon batch, not so much!

I have to agree with this. I love the concept and everything about BIAB, done it a couple times for 5 gallon batches and it worked out pretty well, however since I brew outdoors and don't have a garage or anything in that nature, a levy system would pretty much be out of the question unless i build some goofy contraption. I'm also getting older and am constantly throwing out my back. so lifting a grain bag for a 10-15 gallon batch would be out of the question for me.

From what i understand you can also do a few things with a typical 3-tier setup than you could with a BIAB system. such as a decoction mashing. (never done that, but i like to have the option available. )

 

[Ramitt]

From what i understand you can also do a few things with a typical 3-tier setup than you could with a BIAB system. such as a decoction mashing. (never done that, but i like to have the option available. )

I can't see any reason one could not pull some grain and wort from a biab to a separate vessel to do a decoction, would not be entirely different. I prefer my mlt setup, but before that biab was great.

 

[mttfrog13]

For a 3 gallon batch, a BIAB would be a very reasonable alternative for someone like me. For an 11 gallon batch, not so much!

I agree. I've been brewing 5 gallon partial mash batches with about 5lbs of grain. For my next batch I'm switching to 3 gallon batches with the all grain BIAB method. I'm also getting a minifridge for temp control.

 

[Sloobie]

It seems that no one has mentioned the one definite difference between the two: beer clarity. Sure, it's a small thing and has little to do with overall beer flavor, but when a beer comes out crystal clear and tastes great, it's a nice little bonus and helps to build confidence in your process. I've never made a clear beer with BiaB, but soon after switching to an MLT they were coming out clear whether I liked it or not (I only use Irish moss as a kettle fining and no other filtering/fining agents). The vorlauf makes a world of difference in that regard, which is, of course, not possible or, at least, practical with a BiaB system.

So, it's a minor detail, but maybe it will make you feel better about your Blichman gear?

 

[kh54s10]

It seems that no one has mentioned the one definite difference between the two: beer clarity. Sure, it's a small thing and has little to do with overall beer flavor, but when a beer comes out crystal clear and tastes great, it's a nice little bonus and helps to build confidence in your process. I've never made a clear beer with BiaB, but soon after switching to an MLT they were coming out clear whether I liked it or not (I only use Irish moss as a kettle fining and no other filtering/fining agents). The vorlauf makes a world of difference in that regard, which is, of course, not possible or, at least, practical with a BiaB system.

So, it's a minor detail, but maybe it will make you feel better about your Blichman gear?

I am not so sure that BIAB will produce a more cloudy beer. I have done a few BIAB 3 gallon batches (I don't really enjoy BIAB) and ferment in primary for 3 weeks. The beers were as clear as my other methods of brewing. The cloudiest I have made is my current. It was HLT - MT - BK. It is a pale ale. I did a 4 ounce flame out hop addition. I don't know if this made the difference.

To the OP: Give it more time. It will take a bit of time to work out the kinks.

 

[eastoak]

It seems that no one has mentioned the one definite difference between the two: beer clarity. Sure, it's a small thing and has little to do with overall beer flavor, but when a beer comes out crystal clear and tastes great, it's a nice little bonus and helps to build confidence in your process. I've never made a clear beer with BiaB, but soon after switching to an MLT they were coming out clear whether I liked it or not (I only use Irish moss as a kettle fining and no other filtering/fining agents). The vorlauf makes a world of difference in that regard, which is, of course, not possible or, at least, practical with a BiaB system.

So, it's a minor detail, but maybe it will make you feel better about your Blichman gear?

not true at all. beer clarity has little to do with the mash or or vorlauf.

 

[kman6234]

Awesome video! I think right now you're suffering from some normal buyers remorse. I'd definitely wait a little while before considering getting rid of your system.

 

[ObsidianJester]

I don't think the system is a complete loss by any means. I have a Blichman burner, leg extentsions and a 10 gallon pot from them. While I would not buy another pot from them the pot I do have is pretty darn nice. I would get the Tier system even though I do not rinse my grains and just do batch sparging currently. Why? A few years and a bad accident in the Army has left me with a bad back. I like being able to drain downward with as little lifting as possible. If I decide I really like this whole brewing thing enough to enlist in the tower system I will. Some folks can make their own systems. I'm not that creative and for the price I can just have one done up. If nothing else you put your water in your mash tun and drain it down to the boil kettle and then to the fermenter. Sure beats lifting five to ten gallons of water that's boiling hot or 150+ at a time.

 

[Gameface]

I think the issue is really just being a beginner on your new system after being used to being a "pro" at your old system. You're in the hardest part of the learning curve and you gave up a process that you had mastered. Regret is normal, but you'll learn the new system and grow to appreciate it I bet.

 

[Salpino]

Don't fear the BIAB. Whirlfloc and cold crashing are your friends.

This Vienna Lager was brewed with my BIAB system. Clear beer has never been an issue.

 

[StenbergBrewing]

Update: I sold the whole system to an old brewing club member. I continue to keep it ghetto with My old gear but am loving BIAB. I have a 15 gal and 7 gal pots and can brew 2 different recipes at once and one of them a double batch. With a new baby around time is key for me so when I get to brew it's nice to do it all at once! Thanks everyone back to the old way


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[MattyIce]

Are you using anything special to hoist the grain bag out?

I am jealous of your garage drain. Is that common in your region?

 

[StenbergBrewing]

Old fashioned arm and back muscle. Drains are not unusual but I wouldn't say common. We live in Alberta Canada. Lotsa frozen ice melting off cars in garage in winter


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[watermelon83]

Well that explains the overalls and sandals. 😁