Session saison suggestions

[smh]

Hi Folks,
Making an attempt at my first saison. I don't want a high ABV, just something that I can get the feel for the style and to use up some ingredients. This is based partly on: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/session-saison-343162/
I think I'm looking for something a little darker.

Boil Size: 3.62 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.12 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 3.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.034 SG
Estimated Color: 13.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 76.2 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.7 %
5.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.9 %
2.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 3.2 %
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 26.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [124. Yeast 6 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 3 lbs 15.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 15.63 qt of water at 157.9 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Boil 60 minutes.

Any comments would be appreciated. This is my first try, I'm typically a bitter or stout person but wanted something that handles higher temp ferments as it's warming up fast.

Thanks

 

[eulipion2]

What flavor profile are you looking for in your darker saison? I've always found black saisons (e.g. Pepe Nero) underwhelming. Something about the dryness clashing with the darker flavors. Munich will give a rounder, maltier flavor, Special B will give a dark fruit, subtle caramel character.

I'd almost say ferment with 3711 on the warmer side (72-75) for a bit of spice. Maybe mash a little higher, say 154-156 to keep it from getting too dry (it is possible). Even with mashing that high 3711 will eat it up. Not sure of the strain you listed, but 3711 is a hungry little bugger. My last session saison was mashed at 156 and finished at 1.006.

The only reason I recommend 3711 is because it doesn't require the temperature ramp-up like 3724 does, but lots of people swear by 3724, so it's up to you.

Having never brewed a dark saison I'm just guessing, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[beaksnbeer]

I personally like trappist high gravity yeast nice dry crisp finish + likes warmer temps.

 

[smh]

In terms of flavour profile I'm not exactly sure since this is a starting point. I prefer maltier rather than hop-forward beer. I am looking for a bit of citrus note for the summer, but wouldn't be averse to some spice. Possibly corriander-esqe. I don't care much to add spices, I like the basics to shine though rather than making a lot of additions.

 

[smh]

Also, I really have a basic setup so this will be at ambient temperatures which right now are fluctuating in the 70s-80s.

 

[urbanmyth]

A great session saison for me has been

72% Pils
22% Wheat Malt
6% Caravienne

17 IBU of Hallertau at 60 mins,
14g Saaz at 5 mins.

Fermented with 3711 in the mid 60s. I started at 1.025 and got down to 1.002. PERFECT summer lawnmower beer (2.9%), and still plenty of body and flavor, too. Lots of pils character, and a little touch of spice from the Saaz.

If you are looking for more of a citrus note, you could dry hop with some Sorachi Ace.

I don't see adding a touch of debittered black malt to add color messing up the flavor of this base.

 

[smh]

I'm a little concerned with 3711 at the higher temperatures and getting some off flavours. Is this a legitimate concern? It seems that 3724 tolerates the warmer ferment a little better.

Also, how long do these typically take from start to bottle to drinking?

 

[tagz]

I ramped 3711 from 68 to 80 over the course of a week. No fusels or off flavors. Much better profile that my first run with it at 65 to 70.

 

[Polboy]

Im big fan of saisons, my house version is below but its little stronger than you looking for, i dont use any spices but use rye for this special something and if you want some citrus flavors add some C hops in last 10-0min of the boil. 3711 is great because it will ferment fast regardless temperature, i never brought it over 80F but from what i was reading there is no problem fermenting it hot, 3724 on the other side needs to be heated to 80-90F, takes much longer and to be honest im not that crazy about the flavor it gives. My schedule for fermentation with 3711 is 2weeks in primary 1 week in 2ndary then bottle and its usually ready to drink 2 weeks later, im sure you can skip 2ndary and bottle/keg at stable FG

15 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 68.2 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.6 %
2 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 %
1 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 4.5 %
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 10.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 12.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 3.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 4.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9 -
1 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 10 4.5 %

 

[smh]

Polboy this is sounding good. I like the idea of some rye. Do you think the magnum hops are a terrible idea? I have some I'd rather use up.

What size is your bill for? I'm sure if I skipped on the sugar it should drop the gravity a fair bit.

 

[beergolf]

Saisons are pretty easy and a style that has a lot of leeway.

Your recipe looks pretty good if you drop the Special B.

3711 is a much easier yeast to use. Not very temp sensitive. It can ferment cool or hot and always finish low.

 

[smh]

So I've altered the bill to incorporate the suggestions. How does this look:

Ingredients
Amt
Name
Type
#
%/IBU
3 lbs
Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM)
Grain
1
72.7 %
12.0 oz
Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
Grain
2
18.2 %
4.0 oz
Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
Grain
3
6.1 %
2.0 oz
Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
Grain
4
3.0 %
0.50 oz
Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
Hop
5
26.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg
French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 ml]
Yeast
6
-
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.036 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.8 %
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 26.4 IBUs
Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.5 SRM

 

[Polboy]

This looks good and magnum will be fine, 1.036 OG is little lower what i ever brewed but it could be just fine

 

[smh]

brewed this up tonight. pitched the yeast at a little high temp because I was tired. Around 90F. I did add half of a nutrient tablet and whirl floc in the last 15 minutes of the boil. Forgot to take my gravity before pitching, but when I did it came out to 1.034. Tasted kinda sour and not so good. I suspect this will clean up with the ferment.

Now it's time to wait and see, it's in a 70F room now.

 

[smh]

I checked the gravity this morning. Sitting at 1.000. I can't imaging it will go any lower. So will bottle tonight.
I will bottle prime. Is 2.5 volumes a sensible amount? I don't like super carbed beer, but judging by the hydrometer sample it will benefit for a fair amount of carbonation. That being said, the sample tasted really nice. Can't comment much further than that since it was tasted on a freshly brushed palate...