Making a traditional Germnan hefeweizen with pilsner malt instead of 2-row

[Nate R]

Hey all. Not sure if this is the best place for this thread, but i have been really enjoying making hefeweizens lately.
I want to try a batch but use pilsner instead of 2-row. Anybody done this before? Any reason why it would or would not work?

I was thinking it would lend a little different mouthfeel to it.

Also, would fermenting a little colder help bring out that difference? I use a weistaphen (spelling) type yeast. Usually at about 72 or so.

Thanks all!

 

[dmtaylor]

Most Germans use pilsner malt as the base. Do it.

You might be interested in this:

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

 

[Nate R]

Most Germans use pilsner malt as the base. Do it.

You might be interested in this:

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

Yeah... i already that have bookmarked. What a great page!!
Thanks!

 

[ebbelwoi]

Wheat malt plus pilsner malt is the traditional grain bill, so that should work out fine. Aside from that, yeast selection and fermentation temp are major factors.

WLP300/WY3068 is often referred to as "the Weihenstephan strain" (W68), but WLP351/WY3638 is also a Weihenstephan strain (W175), the former being known for for banana esters, and the latter for clove phenols and fruity/bubblegum esters.

Definitely read the braumagazin article. Over and over again!

 

[Nate R]

Wheat malt plus pilsner malt is the traditional grain bill, so that should work out fine. Aside from that, yeast selection and fermentation temp are major factors.

WLP300/WY3068 is often referred to as "the Weihenstephan strain" (W68), but WLP351/WY3638 is also a Weihenstephan strain (W175), the former being known for for banana esters, and the latter for clove phenols and fruity/bubblegum esters.

Definitely read the braumagazin article. Over and over again!

You ever try both strains together?

Thanks for the tips!

 

[ebbelwoi]

You ever try both strains together?

Thought about it...

 

[Lefou]

For my hefeweizen beers it's Belgian or German Pilsner malt. The brewshop offers Dingemans or Avangard so that's what I typically choose along with WLP300 yeast. The WLP351 strain left a clove essence I didn't appreciate, so it's strictly WLP300 - for me, anyway.
I've done step mashes, infusions, and even a decoction with these beers. Decoctions are extra time and work but they add something distinctive to the beer if done right. On the other hand, I'm not truly sure if the extra work and effort is really worth it when you can add a small portion of light or dark Munich while staying within an acceptable color range for the style.
Yeah, I know adding Munich malt to a hefeweizen isn't faithful to the traditional mix but I'm lazy and like an experiment or two, but I DEFINITELY won't put crystal malts in. I do have limits.
Noble hops for bittering and soft water with additions balanced or to the malty side with a bit more CaCl. I like my brews a bit to the drier side with nice carbonation so I tend to go for a more fermentable wort and a slightly longer mashing time.

Now for the "American style".
WLP320.
You can switch hops and malts, too. I sometimes choose Vienna over Pilsner malt and use Liberty hops, too, because Liberty is comparable to the mild German noble hops. Water and mash times are still the same but you shouldn't really expect the banana or clove essence as with the German version due to the yeast.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Pils malt doesn't lend a different mouthfeel, but it gives does give it a more traditional "grainy" flavor.

DEFINITELY follow the instructions in that link; I've turned out amazing hefes as a result of that and Hieronymus' Brewing With Wheat book. I also decoct, and if i had to bet, i probably couldn't tell the difference between a decocted and non-decocted hefe (in relation to flavor), but i've read that decocting helps with head retention and turbidity stability. Sold me.

 

[Lefou]

I did a decoction on the American-style hefeweizen with a slightly higher bittering level than a German hefe. The foam on the fresh beer wasn't fine and rocky but literally wouldn't go away. That batch disappeared quickly and I didn't save any bottles to observe whether the carbing changed.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yeah, not sure why you asked if anyone had ever made a Hefe with Pilsner malt, because literally every German ever who has made a Hefe used Pilsner malt. Using 2-row pale is the anomaly.

 

[Lefou]

Yeah, not sure why you asked if anyone had ever made a Hefe with Pilsner malt, because literally every German ever who has made a Hefe used Pilsner malt. Using 2-row pale is the anomaly.

I don't know. That Miraculix guy drinks unboiled, non-Rheinheitsgebot stuff.
I hope his ears are itching.

 

[Nate R]

Yeah, not sure why you asked if anyone had ever made a Hefe with Pilsner malt, because literally every German ever who has made a Hefe used Pilsner malt. Using 2-row pale is the anomaly.

Well i am like 16 batches in my career so far... (only 3 had to go down the drain! Yay! The last few hefe's have kicked in a week!)
I guess i went off of all the kits i found. They used 2 row and wheat. Probably because it is not a huge difference in taste but is in cost for the suppliers.

I can't wait to try pilsner now on a side by side!

Thanks all!!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Well i am like 16 batches in my career so far... (only 3 had to go down the drain! Yay! The last few hefe's have kicked in a week!)
I guess i went off of all the kits i found. They used 2 row and wheat. Probably because it is not a huge difference in taste but is in cost for the suppliers.

I can't wait to try pilsner now on a side by side!

Thanks all!!

As a general rule, a good rule of thumb is if you are trying to replicate a style from a particular country, use ingredients from that country. If you are making German lagers, use German malts. If making English ales, use English malts. Etc, etc.
The differences are subtle, but there are differences.
Aim small, miss small.

 

[Nate R]

As a general rule, a good rule of thumb is if you are trying to replicate a style from a particular country, use ingredients from that country. If you are making German lagers, use German malts. If making English ales, use English malts. Etc, etc.
The differences are subtle, but there are differences.
Aim small, miss small.

Sage advice. I get my sack of Weyerman (spelling?) wheat tommorrow! I have been using up some misc. ingredients i have had around. Hence the question on pilsner malt. I made a good pilsner before but just can't committ my fermenter to that long of a ferment time.
Thanks!

 

[Nate R]

Hey all!! Got my sack of malt today!
First of all- a Vittle's Vault 50# easily fits a 55# sack of grain. Good to know. I bet it would fit in a 40# especially if you used the first 10# or so in a batch.

Ok, since i already got some great help here, anybody know what the life of a grain malt is? I am thinking 2 years. My sack of Wyerman wheat expires Nov 2020. Plenty of time!!

 

[Nate R]

Hey all!! Got my sack of malt today!
First of all- a Vittle's Vault 50# easily fits a 55# sack of grain. Good to know. I bet it would fit in a 40# especially if you used the first 10# or so in a batch.

Ok, since i already got some great help here, anybody know what the life of a grain malt is? I am thinking 2 years. My sack of Wyerman wheat expires Nov 2020. Plenty of time!!

Sorry all- that was an unfinished thought!!

What i meant to ask was- when do you think the grain was packaged? Nov 2018?

Sorry for confusion!

 

[Robert65]

@NateR,

Go to the BSG (importer/distributor) website. Somewhere on the menu you will find a tool where you can get lot analyses for products from various manufacturers (sorry I don't have a better navigation tip at the moment.) There you can enter the lot number on that sack (it will help you identify the format of number you are looking for,) and get a certificate of analysis on that very sack of malt. It will include every spec you could want, including the production date. You should also be able to get that by just scanning the QR code on the sack, but that hasn't been working for me lately.

 

[Nate R]

@NateR,

Go to the BSG (importer/distributor) website. Somewhere on the menu you will find a tool where you can get lot analyses for products from various manufacturers (sorry I don't have a better navigation tip at the moment.) There you can enter the lot number on that sack (it will help you identify the format of number you are looking for,) and get a certificate of analysis on that very sack of malt. It will include every spec you could want, including the production date. You should also be able to get that by just scanning the QR code on the sack, but that hasn't been working for me lately.

Awesome! Ty!!

 

[Dog House Brew]

And 2 years is nothing.