Sorachi Ace Saison w/brett

[kchomebrew]

Documenting a saison brew I put together. Just brewed this past Sun. 5/26. Originally was planning to include late addition hops as Amarillo but couldn't find any at the LBHS. Saw they had a bunch of Sorachi Ace, so I decided to go for it. Wanted to make a more sessionable saison under 6% ABV. Hope this one accomplishes it. WAs worried about getting enough malt flavors so I thought I'd include a small amount of biscuit malt. Also, for bittering, I had intended to purchase 2 oz. of Hallertauer pellets and simply forgot to buy 2 oz. and realized I only had 1 oz. by the time I was ready to brew. Had a pack of Warrior hops sitting around, so I used a small amount of those on the fly. Also, with this 10 gal. batch, I split it at 5 gal. and made starters of the following to use - WLP565 Saison (Dupont I believe) WLP670 (Lost Abbey). Here's what I've got:

Kettle Volume: 14.0*gal @ 212*°F (1.043)
Boil Duration: 1.5*h
Final Volume: 10.56*gal @ 68*°F (1.054)
Efficiency: 90.0%

11*lb (61.1%) Belgian Pils - added during mash
4*lb (22.2%) Wheat Malt; Castle Malting - added during mash
1.0*lb (5.6%) Corn Flaked (Maize) - added during mash
1*lb (5.6%) Wheat Flaked - added during mash
1*lb (5.6%) Biscuit Malt; Castle Malting - added during mash
1*oz (23.5%) Hallertauer Hersbrucker (4.5%) - boiled 60*m
.25*oz (5.9%) Warrior® (16.0%) - boiled 60*m
1*oz (23.5%) Simcoe® (13.0%) - boiled 10*m
1*oz (23.5%) Sorachi Ace (12.8%) - flameout, whirlpooled 20*m
1*oz (23.5%) Sorachi Ace (12.8%) - added dry to secondary fermenter

Recipe
Original Gravity: 1.054
Terminal Gravity: 1.011
Color: 5.17*SRM
Alcohol: 5.68%
Bitterness: 24.3

Grist 1.25 qt water/lb. grain. Mash schedule - 122 protein rest - 15 min, 85 min at 148 - 10 min. mashout 168F , 60 min sparge at 168. 90 min boil

water used was 30Ca, 5 Mg 50Na, 174SO4 35HCO3 total hardness was 107 - Hainaut region is hard water so I am close - add 2 tsp of gypsum and campden tablet for chlorine.

I'll post updates as this moves along. Chilled wort to 70. Pitched yeast and dropped to 65 degrees. Will sit at 65 degrees in primary for 36 hours. Then, will move to 77F - 80F for 10-12 days and take readings to see where we are at. Plan is to secondary dry hop for 10 days with Sorachi Ace and then bottle. Will condition for approx. 3 mo. (Aug. will sample).

 

[eulipion2]

Especially with such a long, low mash temp, I think your FG is going to be a bit lower, say around 1.004-1.006. Why did you use corn?

 

[kchomebrew]

Especially with such a long, low mash temp, I think your FG is going to be a bit lower, say around 1.004-1.006. Why did you use corn?

True. It's possible. FG might end up a bit low on the WLP565 batch..I assume it for sure will end up lower on the batch with the brett yeast. I used corn, well...pretty much because I've seen a lot of American breweries that make saisons using it to sweeten and lighten the body and color of the beer. I'll point to Boulevard Tank 7, which uses corn and serves as an inspiration for this recipe.

 

[eulipion2]

I used corn, well...pretty much because I've seen a lot of American breweries that make saisons using it to sweeten and lighten the body and color of the beer. I'll point to Boulevard Tank 7, which uses corn and serves as an inspiration for this recipe.

Interesting! I had no idea. Need to read more labels, I guess.

 

[kchomebrew]

Been fermenting away in the primary so far. Batch with WLP565 is in a room where 81F is the ambient temp. WLP670 is in a room where 73F-75F is the constant ambient. Both are still producing airlock bubbles but pretty infrequently at this point. I'll take a reading tomorrow and see where things are at. If it's down to 1.008 or below, I'll go ahead and transfer the WLP565 to a secondary and dry hop with 1oz of Sorachi Ace. I'll also transfer the WLP670 but will likely let that one sit in the secondary for a month or so to let the brett character develop till it's where I want it (thinking 1 mo. ought to be good). Haven't decided if I want to dry hop the WLP670 though. If I can pick up some Nelson Sauvin and mix with Sorachi Ace on the brett batch for 10 days or so before bottling, that could be pretty cool. I'll continue to update.

 

[kchomebrew]

I got a bit busy with things and didn't get around to checking gravity on these batches of Saison till today. Took a reading on the WLP565 batch and it was right at 1.008. Never had any problems like many have reported with stuck gravity at 1.035. Chugged right through it. Appearance was somewhat cloudy and aroma had a lemon and spicy phenol character to it. Quite dry on the finish. I transferred to a glass carboy and added 1oz. of Sorachi Ace whole leaf. I'll probably leave it for 10 days and then bottle.

Checked the second batch I made with WLP670 yeast (brett batch). I kept this one at around 73F/75F for primary ferment. Took a gravity reading and this one was already brilliantly clear (no cloudiness like the WLP565 batch. Reading came out just under the 10 mark at 1.009. I'm planning to let this one sit in the secondary to develop the brett character. I figure I'll give this 30 days at 75F and then bottle at some point in July. Aroma on this one is noticeably more interesting than the 565. Definitely can pick out the brett already. It's got the funkiness and tart aromas. Taste is the same and I think this one is significantly better tasting than the 565 batch at this point (we'll see what happens in due time). I'll post a photo of the gravity reading. I didn't dry hop this one with Sorachi Ace hops. I might decide to do it in 20 days or so, we'll see where the aroma and flavor sit.

I plan to bottle both of these batches with my new colonna capper. I bought some belgian corks and wire hoods and have been saving up belgian bottles for some time. I'm excited for a final product (will probably have to wait till Aug. though...patience !).

I'll post again when I bottle the 565 batch with some photos of the gravity reading and corked bottles and same for the 670 batch when that time comes.

 

[kchomebrew]

WLP670 reading before transfer to secondary

 

[kchomebrew]

Bottled the regular Saison non Brett batch today. Belgian bottles, corks and cages. Will let these bottle condition till mid late August and then crack em open. The sorachi ace is very prevalent. Very lemony and a good amount of funky crisp spiciness to this one. Can't wait to try this one once it ages out! Will bottle the Brett batch in a couple more weeks probably. Fg on the bottled batch today dropped to 1.006.

 

[kchomebrew]

Bottled the brett version batch today. Oddly enough the brett version FG was only down to 1.008 while the regular version was 1.006. Will probably let this one bottle condition till labor day and then sample, then probably try again at end of Sept. , but expect it to probably hit perfect quality around mid/late Oct. I'll post notes as it goes.

Hoping the non brett WLP 565 batch will be drinkable on labor day weekend. Going to wait till then to sample and post.

 

[kchomebrew]

Well, I couldn't wait. I tried my non brett batch that was made with WLP 565 after work today. Good news ! It's certainly ready and, man, this is a good one. Photo does it justice. Good fluffy white head and pours hazy golden/orange. Nose is lemon and citrus, candied pineapple, and nice belgian funky aromas. Taste is surprisingly crisp immediately on the tongue with lively effervescence. I would imagine, without the use of flaked corn, this beer could be too dry. I think the corn provides a sweetness that really makes this beer come together. Medium light bodied malt flavor with some biscuit/cracker flavors (biscuit malt I suppose). Immediately gives way to the sorachi ace lemon and then finishes dry and tart. I love the fact this is roughly 5.5% ABV and a bit more drinkable than some of the higher gravity saison's that tend to get brewed.

After sampling this, I'm not really sure I would change a thing. About as good as I could hope for. Yeah. I am pleased with this one. This is a winner. Now I'm looking forward to the brett batch !! But that will be a long wait since I bottled it last night.

 

[kchomebrew]

I entered the regular saison batch in a recent competition and it got 1st place in the Belgian/French category. Also got 3rd place in the BOS category

Tried the Brett versions this past weekend. Wow magnificent. I'll post some photos and tasting notes soon.

 

[kchomebrew]

Going to brew a Saison this weekend and basing the grain bill off this recipe since it worked really well but adding a tad bit more pils. Picked up some WLP 565 and 670 again and will split the 10gal. batch with these two yeasts.

Kettle Volume: 14.0*gal
Boil Duration: 1.5*h
Final Volume: 10.56*gal
Efficiency: 90.0%

12*lb (61.1%) Belgian Pils - added during mash
4*lb (22.2%) Wheat Malt; Castle Malting - added during mash
1.0*lb (5.6%) Corn Flaked (Maize) - added during mash
1*lb (5.6%) Wheat Flaked - added during mash
1*lb (5.6%) Biscuit Malt; Castle Malting - added during mash

Haven't decided on the hops I am going to use. I've got some Motueka, Pacific Jade, Nelson, and Galaxy that I could choose from. Maybe something like Pacific Jade at 10m, and then a mix of Motueka and Nelson or Motueka and Galaxy at knockout and hop steep. I'm going to skip bittering additions on this one and focus on late addition IBUs to bring in the bitterness and aroma. I've also got a bunch of citra, simcoe and mosaic. But will likely hang on to those for pale ales and IPAs. I'll post final recipe when I figure it out.

 

[epp200]

Both of these sound awesome! I think I'm going to do a split batch just like you did. For the Brett version, did you end up dry hopping with Nelson?

 

[kchomebrew]

Og 1.059. Did 1oz pacific jade at 15m , 2 oz el dorado at 5 min, and 2 oz galaxy and 1 oz citra and 1 oz motueka at knockout and the. At 185f added 1oz citra and 1oz galaxy and then waited till 170f and added 1oz Nelson sauvin and gave it 30 min to rest. Probably 34 ibu . Split into two batches with WLP565 on one and WLP670 for the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kchomebrew]

Fermentation really took off on both these batches within 24 hours and had to use blowoff tubes. Temp on both batches started at 64F and now up to 68F and will leave it at 68F for about a week and then will move the WLP565 batch to 80F for a couple of weeks and will let the 670 batch stay at room temp (67/68F) for the next few months.

Around April 16th I'll check the 565 batch and see if FG has been reached (expect this to get down to 1.008 and then it can be bottled). If it's 1.008 I'll cold crash for 72hrs. and then bottle on the weekend of 4/18.

 

[DennisinIowa]

Thanks' for the posts.
I am working with WLP670 on several batches. Nothing interesting at this time.
D

 

[kchomebrew]

Still fermenting away in the primary on these. Brett 670 batch is at 75F and 565 batch is right at 80F. I'll take a gravity sample on the 565 and see where it's at. If we're at around 1.008 then it'll be time to bottle. For the 670 batch, I'll probably move this off the heating pad and into a dark area of my basement that's right around 65F and leave it there for a month or 2 and then will bottle.

 

[kchomebrew]

565 batch is down to 1.008 gravity. Will bottle this up soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pegasus_brew]

I used wlp670 for the first time for a Saison I brewed last Sunday. Fermented it at ambient temp because my ferm chamber is tied up with a lager. Pitched with out a starter and at 65ish ambient it went from 1.052 to a little under 1.0 in 5 days. Completely blown away. I had to double check my hydrometer to make sure it wasn't reading incorrectly. The sample tasted great, so I transferred it to secondary today and harvested some yeast to use for another Saison I'm brewing tomorrow. That's one hell of a yeast strain.

 

[kchomebrew]

Opted to keg the 565 batch today. Will be carbing up for the next several days. 670 is still in fermenter and will keep it fermenting / aging for another month. Plan to bottle condition 670.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kchomebrew]

Pulled a gravity reading/sample on the 670 batch yesterday. It's dropped to 1.005 so it was time to bottle. I bottled up the entire 5 gal. batch. The sample on this one was outstanding. The beer has a similarity to Carnevale by Lost Abbey, but I perceive it to be more bretty. Knowing that 670 is supposed to be from Lost Abbey, this makes sense. I believe Carnevale uses Simcoe and Amarillo and I'd imagine there is similar IBUs that my beer has, but with the hops I use there is going to be a different citrus taste/aroma to it. With mine clocking in at 7.09%ABV, it's a bit more than Carnevale. Looking forward to trying this when it's carbonated. Probably will be able to open a bottle in mid-July.

 

[kchomebrew]

As an update on this, I kegged the non brett batch some time ago and it long since kicked. While it was a nice saison, I'm just not a fan of kegging belgian beers. Maybe next time I keg, I'll prime in the keg and then do a small amount of force carbing. Never really done that before, so it might be interesting to try. With all that in mind, I didn't care for the hop profile associated with this one. If I were to do this again, I'd stick to simple bittering additions and a 10m addition to get somewhere around 25 IBUs and then modest dry hopping and that's it. I think the aroma and flavor from knockout additions conflicts too much with the yeast profile - at least for the dupont strain. Maybe the WT 3711 would play better with hops. Who knows.

For the 670 batch, this one is coming along. Each month it improves more and more. I recently entered it in a competition and it only scored a 30/50. I really believe this was due in part to the conflict the assertive hop profile places on the body of the beer. It doesn't work all that well. Also, I didn't add any T-58 yeast to the bottles before priming. I think that played a factor also (didn't carb up perfectly...not bad, just not as lively as I would like). So, considering all of this, I would bet this beer will be pretty damn good if I let it sit for a year (hop profile will fade, eventually will fully carb, brett yeast will work on asserting itself. So we will see.