Little help on espresso machines?

[Whitefox35]

I’m going to start a new coffee shop and it will be the one stop solution for all your coffee craving. It’s not that a big one but I would be arranging for you all different varieties of homemade tea and coffee. After all who doesn’t like a strong cup of coffee. Rest of the things are on way but I have trouble deciding about the espresso machine. A lot of us know espresso as the one made at home, by your mother or grandmother, traditionally, on the stove, using a Moka pot. That’s the way I remember it too. The Moka pot never fails to make the most delicious espresso. I want to bring the same sense of taste in my espresso as well which will make you feel nostalgic of your childhood days. So do you guys have any suggestions on an espresso machine which brews an espresso just as good as the one that is brewed at home? I have been to many shops and saw many espresso machines, saw the demo too, yet I’m so clueless. I’m so confused right now. Please help me out, guys.

 

[MaxStout]

My wife has an old moki she got from her mom, but it's been so long since we've used it, I can't compare to now. I remember it making decent espresso. Espresso machines can be a wild card--the quality varies wildly. We have a Delonghi we bought for $80 on Amazon. Certainly not as good as a high-end machine, but it does well for us and it was in our price range. Choosing the right coffee, getting the right roast, right grind, etc., are variables that come in to play, and I think that has more effect on the quality of the drink you get.

I can't make a binary choice here, it varies way too much. My vote is "it depends." Just like with brewing beer, use the system you have, perfect your process and make it the way you like it.

 

[TallDan]

I haven't used my moka pot in several years, but at best, i'd say that my espresso machine and my moka pot make different drinks. A moka pot just doesn't produce enough pressure to do the same thing that the espresso machine does. I never got anything from the moka pot that i liked. That said, I've spent WAY more time learning and tuning my process of using the espresso machine than I did with the moka pot.

There might be room for both in a coffee shop, but in my opinion, if you sell moka pot drinks as espresso in an american coffee shop, your customers are going to be disappointed.

 

[DuglasTodesky]

I've little small network of cafes and coffee shops. Il personal experience I will say buy Keurig K425 Plus. For a start looking this review article https://whatever-tech.com/keurig-k425-plus-series-coffee-brewer/. Large reservoir and plenty of size choices. Great features that are actually useful and the digital display makes the learning curve quick. Highly recommend this to anyone looking to upgrade from a classic keurig machine.

 

[tellyho]

There are plenty of mid-level consumer machines that would work as occasional commercial machines. The standard prosumer machine seems to be Rancilio Silvia. You'd also want a grinder to go along. Baratza makes a variety of levels that would work for you.

I have a Silvia with a Baratza Virtuoso and it's done good work for 3ish shots a day. The Silvia is 20 years old and I'm the third owner - still going strong.

 

[zoned_post_meridiem]

Couple of things here, but first is that machine really doesn't matter. Espresso machines have a fairly simple job: they need to hold stable temperatures, and deliver consistent pressure. Almost no consumer-level machines actually manage to do that, but In a coffee shop/production environment, you'll be looking at La Marzocco/Synesso levels of equipment, and they're all good enough at what they need to accomplish to take the machine out of the equation.

At this point, the taste/texture/quality of your espresso comes down to your beans, how you roast them, how you grind them, and at what temps you brew. If you're after the mocha pot taste, you're probably looking at a Brazil-heavy blend (they tend to be more chocolate-y than fruity), a fairly fine grind, and darker roast. But like in brewing, there's a ton of variables here, the equipment is going to be expensive (think a few k just for the grinder, which in many ways is a lot more important than the espresso machine), and you'll have to experiment a ton.

 

[zoned_post_meridiem]

There are plenty of mid-level consumer machines that would work as occasional commercial machines. The standard prosumer machine seems to be Rancilio Silvia. You'd also want a grinder to go along. Baratza makes a variety of levels that would work for you.

I have a Silvia with a Baratza Virtuoso and it's done good work for 3ish shots a day. The Silvia is 20 years old and I'm the third owner - still going strong.

Those are great machines, but I'm not sure they'd work in a shop environment. I think the Silvia isn't NSF certified, and the Baratza grinders (great little things; I use one at home) aren't designed for 30+shots/hour. On the machine level, you'd really want a little more temp stability than a Silvia if you're brewing even a couple of shots in a given 5 minute window -- Fiorenzato's Bricoletta is probably as small as I'd go, but even there, you're running into temp stability issues during rush hour.

 

[DuglasTodesky]

Hmm, perhaps

 

[TallDan]

If you are doing ANYTHING with steaming milk, a silvia is a no-go in a commercial environment. Transition from brewing temperature to steaming temperature takes WAY too long even with one customer waiting for one drink, much less to have to then transition back quickly to brew another shot for the next customer. Even if the volume is low enough and the customers are very patient, consistency is also all over the place unless the baristas are very well trained on the use of the silvia.

I'm not aware of any keurig machines that make a drink can be considered espresso by even the loosest interpretation.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm really glad seeing this thread getting all this good feedback.

@Whitefox35 (our OP), I wonder what your impressions are!

 

[RyanDe680]

If you are doing ANYTHING with steaming milk, a silvia is a no-go in a commercial environment. Transition from brewing temperature to steaming temperature takes WAY too long even with one customer waiting for one drink, much less to have to then transition back quickly to brew another shot for the next customer. Even if the volume is low enough and the customers are very patient, consistency is also all over the place unless the baristas are very well trained on the use of the silvia.

I'm not aware of any keurig machines that make a drink can be considered espresso by even the loosest interpretation.

Agree. A Nespresso is the closest you’ll get unless you diy

 

[zoned_post_meridiem]

Agree. A Nespresso is the closest you’ll get unless you diy

Agree with the agreement. Nespresso is better than 90% of the stuff that passes as espresso in the U.S., but it's far below the 10% that know what they're doing -- not a fault of Nespresso, but simply a limitation of any pod-based system.

That said, at your average mom/pop cafe, or airport cafes and the like, I'd much prefer they just used Nespresso pods and (for people who like milky drinks) did a competently steamed foam on top. Compared to what I usually see -- 10 second gushing pours with zero temp control from manual machines that would be capable of making amazing espresso -- it's the better option.

 

[mashpaddled]

Consider that generally consumer models might produce great espresso but are not designed to endure the stress of regular use for hours every day. Same is true for grinders.

Your money is better spent investing in a pro model designed to be more durable and last longer. Otherwise you will increase your business costs replacing consumer products over and over.