To Kill or not to kill, that is the question

[wfowlks]

So I have been watching my pants and they are getting destroyed (chewed up and spit out). I use neem oil on the pants about once a week because I read not to do it more often than that. Is it ok to do it more often?

These are the bugs that I found after looking at the undersides of the leaves... it appears the neem didn't kill them, even though I sprayed them. I am not familiar with the bugs they don't look like lady bug larvae, (Looking at Google pics of the larvae).

Here are the descriptions of them because phone camera doesn't take that close of a picture, I examined them up close:

This guy is prickly, green base with black dots and spikes - I thought it may be a lady bug larvae but I don't think so because it is not black and red.



These guys look like caterpillars but they didn't die when I sprayed them with neem oil.



Just to rule out the obvious: I did make the bottle of neem oil according to the extract bottle instructions, I spray about once a week and after a rain.


The real question I'm trying to ask is. Are these the bugs that are eating my plants and should I kill them.

 

[wfowlks]

huh? are you drunk?

No, I just originally posted it using the HBT app for my phone. I corrected it so that you should be able to decypher what it was saying.

What I was trying to gather was are the bugs in the picture eating my plant, and what is the best way to kill them because spraying them with neem oil, doesnt seem to do the trick.

 

[orangehero]

Your photos are useless for identification, but judging by the holes in the leaves you should kill them.

Neem oil is not a rapid insecticide, it disrupts the insects' feeding and reproduction but the effects can take some time to kick in. It's not a magic cure and you need to be patient. If you want instant results you need to look at other insecticides.

Also there are several "neem" products sold to gardeners. What you want is 100% neem oil. The principal insecticidal ingredient in neem oil is called azadirachtin, which you can also purchase as a spray. There is also a commonly available product that's called "neem oil", but if you read the back it states that it contains "hydrophobic extract of neem oil". This is junk and is basically a fancy way of naming the oil that is left over after the azadirachtin is extracted. While various oils do have uses in the garden mainly as anti-fungal sprays, this leftover oil will not be as effective against insects. The 100% neem oil (Dynagrow makes a good product) will give you the best protection.

You should mix in a small quantity of dish soap (about 2 teaspoon per gallon, get the non anti-bacterial stuff) in your spray that will act as a surfactant as well as being effective at directly killing insects itself.

Also, ladybug larvae are distinctive and move very fast. Just do an image search if you're not clear.

http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-insecticide.html
http://www.dyna-gro.com/pureneem.htm

 

[wfowlks]

Thanks Orangehero I cropped the pix on the computer so hopefully they can help in the identification. I got the neem extract oil from lowes, I'll have to check the bottle for that azadirachtin compound.

Thanks

 

[PLOVE]

Are you sure they're not ladybug larvae? Do you have aphids? Ladybugs (adults and larvae feed heavily on aphids). If you have aphids, you probably have ladybugs. On the flipside, aphids such from xylem and don't eat leaves. That damage looks more like a caterpillar.

How many hop plants are we talking about? If they're still popping leaves and growing skyward they're probably fine. If a small number, just kill the offenders by hand. . . Looking at the health of your leaves I'd guess you're fine. If things turn brown and leaves are dying I'd be concerned.

Hang in their. . . nature has a way of balancing these things in a predatory vs prey world. Not worth killing the plant. . . won't solve anything IMHO.

P

 

[orangehero]

Those are definitely not ladybugs.

I'm not sure if lowes has it, but if you go to a specialty garden supply store you should be able to find Thuricide or another product that contains Bacillus thuringiensis kurstaki (BTK). It is the superlative treatment against caterpillars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis
http://www.bonide.com/products/product.php?category_id=802

You're talking about getting rid of the insects, right? You should not kill the plant!

 

[wfowlks]

Lol yeah I wasn't planning on killing the plant, the killing in question is insect only

 

[heckels]

Looks a lot like the same guys I dealt with last year. I ended up buying, I believe, some kind of organic insecticide that was made for fruits and veggies. All I can remember is that it was a blue bottle that hooked up to your garden hose.

If you don't treat them soon they will eat 95% of your foliage.

 

[wfowlks]

Looks a lot like the same guys I dealt with last year. I ended up buying, I believe, some kind of organic insecticide that was made for fruits and veggies. All I can remember is that it was a blue bottle that hooked up to your garden hose.

If you don't treat them soon they will eat 95% of your foliage.

Yeah I just looked today and they had multiplied. More of the prickly caterpillars, like 3:1 for what was there yesterday... or maybe just 3x more found today than yesterday! Yikes

 

[whitehause]

I'm not sure if it has completely worked, but I put a circle of crushed red 3/8" stone around the base of my plants, (mainly for slugs) and I haven't notice any more crawly pests on my plants. Maybe caterpillars don't like walking across it either.

 

[wfowlks]

Ok so it looks like I bought the crap neem oil. The hydrophobic extract.








Thanks orange now I know what to look for

 

[Crito]

Caterpillars .... you will want to buy DT. A bacterial spray that will make them stop feeding and kills them.

 

[wfowlks]

Do you mean BT? I googled DT pesticide and it just returned results for BT, if not what is DR an acronym for? I went to my local nursery and they didn't have anything with BT in it, so I got something with the main ingredient being peppermint oil, because the only other one they had was sevin.

The peppermint oil ended up Browning and wilting about 20% of the leaves. But even direct hits the caterpillar survived. So today I got them with dish soap and water spray. I'll check at Lowe's this weekend to see if they have stuff with BT

Thanks guys for the help

 

[Crito]

Bacillus thuringiensis. Aka thuricide BT CATERPILLAR control. Lowes and home depot gas it. They eat the leaves with BT. They stop eating due to the infection and starve to death.


Sorry I said DT. I just went to my garage to get the name if it.. only organic stuff that I know will kill caterpillars.

 

[wfowlks]

No worries everyone makes mistakes I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on some good stuff

 

[Brewmech]

We get swarms of moth caterpillars every spring and they chew plants to pieces. We just use dish soap on them and it seems to do the trick.