Kettle filtering

[scoates]

I'm wondering what others do to filter the break/hops from your kettle when racking to your fermenter.

I've had a big kettle since Christmas, and I still don't quite have the filter thing resolved.

I thought I would use a stainless braid, which mostly works, but gets clogged very easily with pellet hops (especially with the pump). I've tried without the braid, too, and I get too much break/hops in my fermenter.

I'd like to use Jamil's whirlpool method to get a nice cone of trub in the middle of the kettle, then filter from the edges after settling, but how do you get that going if the braid clogs so easily?

Thanks!

S

 

[ClutchDude]

Copper Pot Scrubber has worked well for my roomate and me. We did not use the Whirlpool method though. We just stuck it up in our siphon tube.

 

[scoates]

With pellets?

 

[ClutchDude]

It was used it with pellets and plugs.

It was more to keep the hops from clogging the siphon tube but has worked pretty well in keeping the "sludge" from the getting in the fermenter.

We've gotten 5 AG batches in and we forgot it for one. Ended up with a clogged tube.

 

[Atl300zx]

i took Bobby_M's advice and i copied the hop stopper. See DIY Hop Filter on his page http://www.suebob.com/brew/equipment.htm

 

[scoates]

Thanks for the pointer. Does yours work well with lots of pellet hops?

S

 

[Atl300zx]

when i use 100% pellet hops, i tend to use a grain bag like the link just to make sure (although i still toss some directly into the kettle to create a "pre-filter" on the hop stopper to catch cold break).

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Hop_Bag

If i use a bit of leaf hops, i dont bother with the hop bag.

This experience only comes from 3 brews, as that is all i have done with the "Hop Stopper". I have not tried it with 100% pellets tho. The main reason i built it was to keep cold break outta my pump.

 

[ClutchDude]

Bobby_M's looks like the way to go. In hop heavy recipes, the little scrubber would probably get swamped under the hops, though I imagine you'd want to swap out for a shorter siphon tube (I've got about 1/4" inch clearance between the bottom of the keggle and the siphon tube)

 

[Bobby_M]

Even my large surface area filter choked on all pellets + cold break. You absolutely need some whole hops in there to help keep the wort flowing, otherwise bag the hops.

 

[bradsul]

Nothing but whirlpooling for me. But I gravity feed my CFC, not sure how well that would hold up to all the extra suction a pump would generate. I use an extra little bit of irish moss in the boil to help hold the cone together and it works great.

 

[Bobby_M]

Brad, How long do you have to wait between flameout and chilling to get that cone? I'm a little concerned about DMS production.

 

[Ryan_PA]

I use the hopstopper exclusivly, and have never had an issue with either all pellet, pellet and leaf, or all leaf brews. This thing is really money well spent.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ryan, you chill with an immersion?

 

[WortMonger]

I have to chime in, as I used a hopsack for the first time ever and was amazed. I built a PVC hopsack holder like others have done on HBT and used it the entire boil. Afterwords, I recirculated my wort through my plate chiller and back into the hopsack. This worked until the hopsack started bulging with break. Then I simply ran the wort back into the kettle directly and figured I would have to live with this batch being nastier than I wanted. Now, I can't see into my fermenter to see how much break I have in there but, The chilled wort while recirculating was crystal clear so I must have gotten the majority of the break during the filling of the hopsack. I figure I just need a coarser hopsack post kettle and then remain using the finer one as I did this time to not clog it. After the kettle was blow the sack I rung it out and it got a little cloudy again but was completely acceptable to go into the fermenter. I also forgot to mention that I fabricated another pick up tube that goes directly to the bottom center of the kettle to get every last drop. When I was done I had about 1/4 oz of very clear wort remaining in the bottom of the kettle (with a couple of small clumps of break, and I mean tiny). I was so amazed after brewing and taking my first sample for gravity at the clarity. A few days later when I took another gravity reading it looked like freshly transfered to secondary beer. I will use this method again happily. I used to leave as much as a couple of quarts of gunk behind in the kettle and had to strain it to get a starter or something. Now, I turn my hopsack inside out and give it a spray and she is done. All the wort is in the fermenter, and the kettle is a snap to clean. I have always been a whirlpool and siphon from the side kind-a-guy, never again EVER!!! Thanks for all the great ideas guys, this one made my beer that much better.

 

[bradsul]

Brad, How long do you have to wait between flameout and chilling to get that cone? I'm a little concerned about DMS production.

It takes about 10 minutes for the whirlpool to coast to a stop and settle (I only spin it with the spoon long enough to get it going, about 10-15 seconds). It takes 17 minutes to drain my 25L (finished volume) batches into the primary.

I have no perceptible DMS in any of my brews (except one pilsner malt hefe when I didn't know about the 90 minute boil requirement ). I also do 90 minute boils which probably helps with that.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I just let all that stuff into my primary. I try to avoid what I can, but I don't go to any unusual lengths to avoid it.

I figure, it's yeast food.

 

[mr x]

It takes about 10 minutes for the whirlpool to coast to a stop and settle (I only spin it with the spoon long enough to get it going, about 10-15 seconds). It takes 17 minutes to drain my 25L (finished volume) batches into the primary.

I have no perceptible DMS in any of my brews (except one pilsner malt hefe when I didn't know about the 90 minute boil requirement ). I also do 90 minute boils which probably helps with that.

Same here on the time frame. Everything I have read and done indicates that a 90 minute boil will reduce DMS to undetectable levels.

I use a paint straining bag on the inside of my fermenting carboy held in place by the rubber capper. This filters the small amount of hops that I suck from the side of the hop cone in the kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

Filtering out hop gunk is the one thing that's stopped me from getting a plate chiller so far. I think the whirlpool thing is workable, followed by a small screen on an offset pickup tube for those stubborn bits that won't settle into the cone.

 

[Ryan_PA]

Ryan, you chill with an immersion?

Nope, shirron plate chiller. I know there is an uber freak out factor of cold break and debris buildup in these, but I follow a religious cleaning process and have never had an infected, or bad, batch with this. I am getting into larger batches now, so I may start cycling from the kettle through the chiller and into the kettle again to more quickly drop the temp as a whole. then when DMS is covered, switch from the return to the kettle into the primary.

Sorry to OP for the hijack.

 

[scoates]

NP (-: I'm only concerned about space in the primary carboy (and having too much junk floating around). I use an immersion chiller, myself, and couldn't quite get the Jamil whirlpool going with the pump alone, but I think that's partially due to bad plumbing (temporary hoses, not pipes), and partially due to me not thinking to start the whirlpool by hand, first.

Thanks to all who replied. I'll continue searching for answers (-:

S

 

[WortMonger]

Ryan PA, I used my Therminator 2 times when I first got it and tried my hardest to pre-filter to no avail. So, I swapped back to my IC since I kept getting hop particles out of the plate chiller when I was sanitizing it before the next use. Heard the Jamil thing and went out and bought the pump and the other things needed for the ice water recirculation. Then, I saw the hopsacks being used and no one having hop problems in their beers on here. Now I am back to the Therminator, and didn't have any particles in it after the initial back flush with the hose. I thought I was going to have to sell it just recently and continue with the IC. I am so happy now. If I had to do it all over again I would buy the Shirron over the Therminator, but I do love that bad-but-heavy little boy.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ryan, I asked because the hopstopper just won't keep flowing with pellet hops and cold break combined so I suspected you had so much luck because you were using an external exchanger. I think you'll find that a recirculation of chilled wort back into the kettle will clog it pretty well.

The hop sacks work great if you don't mind the slight reduction of utilization.

I'm still leaning towards a whirlpool and offeset pickup like bradsul is doing.

 

[riored4v]

Ryan, I asked because the hopstopper just won't keep flowing with pellet hops and cold break combined so I suspected you had so much luck because you were using an external exchanger. I think you'll find that a recirculation of chilled wort back into the kettle will clog it pretty well.

The hop sacks work great if you don't mind the slight reduction of utilization.

I'm still leaning towards a whirlpool and offeset pickup like bradsul is doing.

How much of a reduction would you guess?

Seems some people think there is some, and others dont seem to think so. I recently bought the material to make the big hop sack that is seen frequently on this site, but between this comment and the recent thread about hop sacks, i'm starting to second guess using one. I just love how clean they leave things inside the kettle.

 

[WortMonger]

I can't wait to clean out my fermenter after this batch to see what I have in the bottom of it. Bobby, never having used a hop sack before this last time, how much utilization loss is expected. I feel kinda dumb asking a newb type question like that, but....... I am a self proclaimed idiot . Nah, I just am ignorant via no experience.

 

[Bobby_M]

I really can't quantify it but empirically I'm not tasting the IBU that BTP is saying I should have. Maybe it's just perception and my taste buds are way overacclimated to hops. If I had to guess, I'd say 15-20% less utilization. It's certainly not a boil vigor issue as I ride the fine line just before boilover and easily lose 2 gallons per hour.

 

[riored4v]

Ouch, that's a pretty loss. I guess i'll either start extra-hopping my beers and will start consider a no-bag approach. That sucks.

 

[Bobby_M]

I know it. It seems pretty trivial when you first start brewing but deciding on a wort/hop separation method is a challenge all the way through. Just when you think you figure it out, you change one aspect of your process that makes you rethink it. Go ahead and upgrade from 5g to 10g batches and pouring through a straining funnel doesn't work anymore. Convert from an IC to a plate and now you have to figure out how NOT to clog up the whole darn thing. The fact that commercial breweries sometimes have a whole separate vessel for whirlpooling should tell you something about this complexity.

 

[riored4v]

Trivial is right.

I've only been doing it for a few months, but when i first started it seemed a bag was the way to go. Heck, even after my last brew with no-bag, I was still convinced a bag was the way to go just because straining with a funnel/filter every 30 seconds was annoying. Almost everything I read said there wasn't to much of a difference in utilization as long as the hops have room to move in the bag, but more and more i see things popping up saying that there is a pretty noticeable difference in beers brewed w/o a bag. All the different methods are definitely confusing/frustering/changing/unexpected.

Just to get an idea and to possibly teach myself something, would you think that for every 2-3oz of hops, maybe an extra .5oz would help balance things out?

 

[Bobby_M]

I know the problem is that it's hard to throw an extra .2oz into a usual 1oz addition when you don't want to break up the 1oz packages. Worse yet, the kit you bought doesn't account for it.

I MIGHT be exaggerating the loss just a bit.

On the bittering addition, I'd take a guess that simply increasing the boil from 60 to 70 minutes would do wonders. You can also bend the flavor addition a bit from 15 to 20 minutes which will give you more bittering without sacrificing too much flavor. You can't do this with aroma additions and I've been free floating those lately for that reason.

 

[riored4v]

Good advice. I appreciate it. I'd much rather increase boil/hop addition time than buy a bunch more hops..lol

I think I'll give this approach a shot on my next brew.

With the aroma addition, what about dry-hopping? But I guess that could lead to a whole 'nother discussion about whether or not to use bags during dry-hopping..lol. If it came to it though, filtering out an aroma addition would probably still require alot less work that filtering out an entire boils worth of hops. I'm thinking that the SS braid in the bottom of my kettle might up to task of handling that.

 

[derekm]

I am just setting up my keggle boil kettle on a three keggle set up and was sent an extra ss valve. After reading this thread I thought it might be helpful to add a second valve on the kettle that would leave a couple gallons of wart left. I will be pumping through a shiron plate chiller. I was thinking i could whirlpool let settle then pump the first 8 gallons (concentrating on 10 gallon batches) from the upper valve then swich to the lower valve and have a ss braid or bazooka to filter the last couple gallons. Does any think this would help with clog issues on the plate chiller or am i overthinking this?

 

[eecan]

I will be using a plate chiller to cool from my kettle. I was thinking of using a combination of the stirring method and hop stopper for primary filtration. Before the input of the plate chiller I thought an inline tee strainer would be a great addition. All stainless components will make cleaning a snap.

Swagelok SS inline filter


I plan on doing some flow tests to determine whether or not the tee filter will clog too quickly. A bypass valve could also be incorporated in case things really went south.

I haven't been able to find anyone that has tested such a setup. Any thoughts?

 

[Bobby_M]

That inline filter is not going to do much for you except clog immediately. A plate chiller can handle bits of stuff here and there. If it couldn't, cold break would clog it even if the incoming wort was clear.

 

[conpewter]

My recent batch went great. I used the PVC collar/hop bag (that I've used before and did not find I lost many IBUs, but I tend to boil for longer than 60 minutes)

I then just had the stainless scrubbie on the end of my dip tube, ran through my Chyco CFC (garden hose and 25' of 3/8" copper tube) and into the fermenter, I know I have cold break in the fermenter but that's fine with me.

 

[BierMuncher]

This for keeping hops out of my kettle:





This for removing my dry hops when racking from the fermenter:





The results...clear wort:

 

[springer]

I use an over the sink strainer like this one.I bought it at Target for 24 or 25 $. It does a good job and helps to aerate the wort . It fits nicely over the 6 gallon bucket primary .