Do I REALLY need to pay attention to pitch rates???

[Yooper]

You don't need any DME to make a starter. You just need wort. Stepping up does require more time, but if are in a hurry why bother with a starter at all? Just pitch a whole bunch of packs of yeast.

One thing I like to do is save wort after brewing. I'll purposely sparge longer- and once the BK is at the correct volume, I'll draw off another gallon or so. I'll boil that down to 1.030 (usually about 10 minutes) on top of my stove, to sanitize and go from about 1.018 (where my sparges tend to be at that time) to 1.030. Then I fill a tupperware pitcher (2 quarts) and freeze. It's not a huge amount at a time, but I usually have some wort (or DME in the cupboard) around for starters that way.

I make 10 gallon batches most of the time. What I like to do is make a starter for the yeast, and then split my 10 gallons into 2 five gallon fermenters. Then, I save and rinse the yeast cakes and divide that into jars for the fridge. I buy yeast only once or twice a year, because then each yeast packages is good for about 10 batches before I buy fresh.

I just purchased $42 of yeast, so I'll be good now until late fall. Starters are a great way to ensure good quality beer by proper pitching rate, plus a good way to save money on yeast.

 

[forstmeister]

So...what I really need to do is buy a 2L erlenmeyer? I can do that...

It's a good start. I have done starters on my last 2 batches. The first, an IPA, took off the same day and after a week in the keg may be my best beer ever (I have probably brewed about 30-40 batches). The second one, an California Common, I brewed yesterday. I pitched a 2L starter and it was vigorously fermenting after only 4 hours. I cold crashed the second one and decanted most of the beer off the yeast cake. I think this will be even more improved than my IPA.

I like to slowly build up my skill set with brewing. It was just time to get better. I was tired of making good beer. I want to make great beer.

 

[forstmeister]

One thing I like to do is save wort after brewing. I'll purposely sparge longer- and once the BK is at the correct volume, I'll draw off another gallon or so. I'll boil that down to 1.030 (usually about 10 minutes) on top of my stove, to sanitize and go from about 1.018 (where my sparges tend to be at that time) to 1.030. Then I fill a tupperware pitcher (2 quarts) and freeze. It's not a huge amount at a time, but I usually have some wort (or DME in the cupboard) around for starters that way.

I make 10 gallon batches most of the time. What I like to do is make a starter for the yeast, and then split my 10 gallons into 2 five gallon fermenters. Then, I save and rinse the yeast cakes and divide that into jars for the fridge. I buy yeast only once or twice a year, because then each yeast packages is good for about 10 batches before I buy fresh.

I just purchased $42 of yeast, so I'll be good now until late fall. Starters are a great way to ensure good quality beer by proper pitching rate, plus a good way to save money on yeast.

Yooper, I never stop learning tricks from you. I will definitely try the extra sparge and collect wort to save for my next starter. There is always sugar left in the mash tun! Yes, I know not to extract below 2-3 Plato though.

 

[Pratzie]

You don't need any DME to make a starter. You just need wort. Stepping up does require more time, but if are in a hurry why bother with a starter at all? Just pitch a whole bunch of packs of yeast.

Im using DME as an example because its arguably the most commonly used type of sugar used in a starter. Using wort from a previous batch is actually a really good idea but it seems like not alot of people save some wort for that purpose

When I said one smack pack suffices (with a 1- or 2-stage starter), I was assuming of course just 5 gallon batches. It goes without saying that such a strategy fails for 10-15+ gal batches of high-grav beer, because like you said logistically it doesn't work well.

I agree it would go without saying but if your used to brewing mid level OG ale's and then decide to try a batch of lager, there is a very big difference in pitch rates. Lager's themselves require much higher rates then ales to begin with and then to possibly step it up to even just a ten gallon increase in size is a big increase in pitching rates. Im just stating that point for people who are used to brewing alot of ales, that pitching rates will change drastically when/if they decide to go to a lagers.

 

[fosaisu]

So...what I really need to do is buy a 2L erlenmeyer? I can do that...

If you want to save money you can get by with a gallon jar as well. Easier to be. The DME in and still works with the stir plate. Oh and it's bigger so can accommodate a larger starter. Figured this out after I broke my 2L flask!

 

[SpeedYellow]

...
I agree it would go without saying but if your used to brewing mid level OG ale's and then decide to try a batch of lager, there is a very big difference in pitch rates. Lager's themselves require much higher rates then ales to begin with and then to possibly step it up to even just a ten gallon increase in size is a big increase in pitching rates. Im just stating that point for people who are used to brewing alot of ales, that pitching rates will change drastically when/if they decide to go to a lagers.

And again, all that is true, but doesn't change the fact that you can easily get the recommended yeast cell count for a 5-gal high-gravity lager using a single smack pack and a two stage starter. E.g. first a 1.5L starter, followed by 3L starter.

 

[weirdboy]

Im using DME as an example because its arguably the most commonly used type of sugar used in a starter. Using wort from a previous batch is actually a really good idea but it seems like not alot of people save some wort for that purpose

You don't have to save wort for that purpose, either. I only do that occasionally because I already have enough brewing stuff in the freezer that my wife would kill me if I started freezing wort in there too.

However what I make simple mini-mashes in my rice cooker to get starter wort. Doesn't take much effort, and I already have plenty of bulk base malt around.

 

[billl]

Something to keep in mind is that not all yeast are created equal.

When you underpitch, you are creating a certain amount of stress on the yeast to rapidly reproduce. (Which could be considerable amounts of stress if you don't have enough oxygen or nutrients.) Each strain is going to respond to that stress in different ways. For a clean american ale yeast, you might not notice a big difference from underpitching as long as you are aerating well and controlling temps. If you do the same thing to a hefe, you'll get dramatically different results. You might like those difference, or you might not, but there will certainly be differences.

 

[Pratzie]

And again, all that is true, but doesn't change the fact that you can easily get the recommended yeast cell count for a 5-gal high-gravity lager using a single smack pack and a two stage starter. E.g. first a 1.5L starter, followed by 3L starter.

Im not gonna argue that, because all of this is six of one and half a dozen of the other. For me, personally, i'd rather spend another 6 or 7 bucks on another vial and just pitch two into one since my work schedule is in constant flux and I like to plan on making the starter on a Thursday so its ready by Saturday when I brew. Your method isn't wrong and neither is mine, it all comes down to preference, time and the size of the flask ur working with (Dammit, I guess size does matter ).

You don't have to save wort for that purpose, either. I only do that occasionally because I already have enough brewing stuff in the freezer that my wife would kill me if I started freezing wort in there too.

However what I make simple mini-mashes in my rice cooker to get starter wort. Doesn't take much effort, and I already have plenty of bulk base malt around.

Ive never heard of anyone doing that before but it makes sense. What kind of grains do u use and how much? And how far in advance do u usually make them? Ive just recently switched to All-grain and don't keep large amounts of grain around but it wouldn't be a problem to have my LHBS package another lb or two of base malt separately for that purpose.

 

[forstmeister]

One more (pictorial) argument for a starter:





This is 24 hours after pitching. I cleaned it and put another airlock on. One hour later the new airlock was full of krausen. I rigged a blow-off tube at that point. This is a mid-gravity California Common that I pitched a 2L starter into.

 

[RIC0]

Under pitch a big beer and you can end up with a good 6% beer instead of a great 9 or 10% beer.

Been there done that...

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Generally a lower pitch is associated with more ester production and can also attribute more off flavors. A higher pitch will give you a cleaner yeast flavor, and will ferment faster. Trappist breweries actually under pitch on purpose to get those extra esters.
If you are brewing low gravity 5 gallon batches, you are probably doing alright with just one vial, but if you are brewing something like an IIPA, you are severely underpitching and I would recommend a half gallon starter.

So would you recommend that I use a smack pack or WL vial and make a starter from it instead of just using multiple smack packs or vials? I don't mean to sound naive, I've just never really done it.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Let's put it a different way, "My beer tastes good doing it this way, so why make better beer?" For quite a while everyone told me that proper pitch rate and controlled fermentation temperatures would make better beer, but "Who needs that? My beer tastes great." Then I put in the effort of making starters and controlling temps. I would never go back to drinking what I was making before. Can you insist on using a single smack pack or vial? Sure. It's your beer. But will you make lower quality beer that way? Every time.

Noted. I suppose I have no reference point of it being "better" or "worse" because I haven't done it any other way. At what gravity do I need to start making a starter or using multiple smack packs / vials?

 

[homebrewbeliever]

While I agree to a point, it is true that the master chef will often emulate simpler rustic cooking, but he still masters the more advanced techniques of cooking, so when he doesn't use a technique he has a good reason. A free-form jazz musician does not simply discard music theory, because his music sounds fine without it. He may lay those restrictions aside, but to make the best music he still masters them. A poet who doesn't feel bound to standards of poetic form, still learns and masters those forms so when he deviates from them it is for a purpose. A brewer who masters the techniques of brewing and then chooses to lay some of those techniques aside is an artist who has a specific reason for using the tools at his command. Is this anywhere close to the one who says, "My beer is fine so why try harder?" While I am all for someone saying this of their own beer, the problem is that when you post such things on a place like HBT (which you are free to do) then you actually cause problems for those who are trying to learn good brewing. "This guy doesn't bother with building a starter, but simply pitches low, so why should I?" For that reason, others must step in and point out that while your choice is your choice and the beer may taste good, this is not good practice and not the practice of someone who wants to make the best beer.

What kind of brewer do you want to be? I don't care about contests and don't care about being better than everyone else. I shoot to be better today than I was yesterday--I compete with myself. I also want to be proud of my beer when presenting some to a friend.

Do an experiment. Make two identical 5 gallon batches. In one batch pitch a single vial of yeast. For the other build an appropriate sized starter (take the time to calculate it). Ferment them out the same way and see what happens. Then decide if you need to use starters. Until you do this, you are only guessing. By the way, you may want to check out the book Yeast, by Chris White--of White labs.

Excuse me, but I did NOT intend to start this thread to make people think that I am an awesome brewer and that my choice so far to not use starters is the best idea in the world. I want to be a fantastic brewer, but I have only been brewing for a year. I am at the point at which I feel I can start expanding my technique, which is why I came to HBT and asked the community what they think about pitch rates. I want to know the answers from more experienced brewers so that I can learn to become a phenomenal home brewer.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

No, you never need to use multiple packets of liquid yeast; just make a larger starter. I refuse to buy multiple $6 yeast packs out of principle, so I just make bigger starters. Sometimes two stage starters, like 1.5L then 3L.

People don't usually make starters with dry yeast, so yes, use multiple packs of dry yeast when needed.

How long do you let the yeast propagate in your starter before pitching? How do you know when there are enough yeast cells? Also, do you pour off the liquid and only pitch the slurry, or do you pitch the whole dang thing?

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

18-24 hrs is usually enough time on a stir plate. I usually let the yeast settle and pitch the thick slurry. Fermenter space usually dictates.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

One thing I like to do is save wort after brewing. I'll purposely sparge longer- and once the BK is at the correct volume, I'll draw off another gallon or so. I'll boil that down to 1.030 (usually about 10 minutes) on top of my stove, to sanitize and go from about 1.018 (where my sparges tend to be at that time) to 1.030. Then I fill a tupperware pitcher (2 quarts) and freeze. It's not a huge amount at a time, but I usually have some wort (or DME in the cupboard) around for starters that way.

I make 10 gallon batches most of the time. What I like to do is make a starter for the yeast, and then split my 10 gallons into 2 five gallon fermenters. Then, I save and rinse the yeast cakes and divide that into jars for the fridge. I buy yeast only once or twice a year, because then each yeast packages is good for about 10 batches before I buy fresh.

I just purchased $42 of yeast, so I'll be good now until late fall. Starters are a great way to ensure good quality beer by proper pitching rate, plus a good way to save money on yeast.

That is a super awesome idea.

 

[forstmeister]

How long do you let the yeast propagate in your starter before pitching? How do you know when there are enough yeast cells? Also, do you pour off the liquid and only pitch the slurry, or do you pitch the whole dang thing?

You can do your starter a couple days to a week before brew day. Use a calculator like www.mrmalty.com to figure out how big of a starter to make based on type of yeast and gravity and batch size. The math is done for you based on research. Most people seem to build the starter a couple days ahead of time, cold crash it in the fridge overnight and decant most of the beer off the morning of brew day. Then set it out to warm up to room temp, and swirl it before pitching to get the yeast back into suspension. Pitch what's left into your wort. Done.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

18-24 hrs is usually enough time on a stir plate. I usually let the yeast settle and pitch the thick slurry. Fermenter space usually dictates.

I do not have a stir plate and I'm a grad student on a pretty tight budget... how long should I let the yeast propagate without a stir plate, and could I just use a growler with an airlock on it that I swirl occasionally throughout the day?

 

[homebrewbeliever]

You can do your starter a couple days to a week before brew day. Use a calculator like www.mrmalty.com to figure out how big of a starter to make based on type of yeast and gravity and batch size. The math is done for you based on research. Most people seem to build the starter a couple days ahead of time, cold crash it in the fridge overnight and decant most of the beer off the morning of brew day. Then set it out to warm up to room temp, and swirl it before pitching to get the yeast back into suspension. Pitch what's left into your wort. Done.

Bam. Thanks! I'm going to try this. I did have an IIPA that I brewed recently that ended a bit too sweet. I thought it was because I had used too many crystal malts, but they really only made up around 7% of the grain bill which shouldn't be too much (IMO, but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Now I am thinking that it may have just been under-attenuated and I should have used a starter.

 

[forstmeister]

I do not have a stir plate and I'm a grad student on a pretty tight budget... how long should I let the yeast propagate without a stir plate, and could I just use a growler with an airlock on it that I swirl occasionally throughout the day?

I don't use a stir plate either. Just cover the mouth of the growler with aluminum foil (sanitized of course) and give the growler a swirl every time you walk by. I do it for about 24-36 hours and then refrigerate overnight to crash it.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

I don't use a stir plate either. Just cover the mouth of the growler with aluminum foil (sanitized of course) and give the growler a swirl every time you walk by. I do it for about 24-36 hours and then refrigerate overnight to crash it.

Word, so I don't even need to use an airlock?

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Also, I know this is only slightly related, but for those of you that have brewed IIPAs, do you think that a grain bill with around 7% crystal malts has too much crystal malt in it? My last IIPA turned out sweet and I thought it was because it had too much crystal malt in it, but now I am thinking that it was just under-attenuated because I used only one vial of WL Dry English Ale yeast and the OG was 1.096...

 

[Pratzie]

Word, so I don't even need to use an airlock?

No, no airlock. the idea is to get Oxygen into it without getting germies or anything bad. Airlocks don't let oxygen inside.

Most places sell the flasks with a sponge that u dip in star san and just put that in, but if ur using something else or don't have a sponge, a piece of sanitized foil over the top will work well.

 

[forstmeister]

Also, I know this is only slightly related, but for those of you that have brewed IIPAs, do you think that a grain bill with around 7% crystal malts has too much crystal malt in it? My last IIPA turned out sweet and I thought it was because it had too much crystal malt in it, but now I am thinking that it was just under-attenuated because I used only one vial of WL Dry English Ale yeast and the OG was 1.096...

What was the final gravity?

 

[isleofman]

It doesn't on a smaller scale because u can get to the same point with just adding some more DME and one step (if u have the time). But when you get into RIS or IIPA's with an OG of 1.090, or a lager with a mid sized OG but with a large 10-15+ gallon batch, do u really wanna have to use a monster flask and a 6 step, week and a half long build up process for your starter with just one pack?

So you are using the most extreme circumstance 10G - 15G @ an OG of 1.090, of course you would want to use multiple packs then. I doubt most HBs have the ability to ramp up a single liquid yeast pack to that level via starter. Though I can almost guarantee that a HBer who isn't using starters is also not making a beer at a volume of 10G - 15G @ an OG of 1.090.

As long as the yeast is less than a few generations (more based on sanitation), you keep each step of starter at the proper cells per milliliter, each step's OG between 1.030 - 1.040, and you use good sanitation, you will make a nice slurry to pitch.

We also need to take into account that liquid yeast packs/vials start losing viability immediately, no matter how well they are handled. A beer with an OG of 1.052 and batch size of 5.5 needs 200 billion yeast cells. This works when each pack/vial is at 100% (they both contain 100 billion at 100% viability) but that is almost never the case. On the other hand, using a 75% viable pack/vial one could make single step starter @ 1.6 liters, with intermittent shaking, and have the resulting 200 billion cells needed.

I too didn't always make starters, BUT I knew they would create a better end product. I just didn't because I didn't have the gear and I was nervous about sanitation.

All I am saying is please be more informed before you hand out advice.

 

[Yooper]

Bam. Thanks! I'm going to try this. I did have an IIPA that I brewed recently that ended a bit too sweet. I thought it was because I had used too many crystal malts, but they really only made up around 7% of the grain bill which shouldn't be too much (IMO, but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Now I am thinking that it may have just been under-attenuated and I should have used a starter.

An IIPA I make has 5% crystal malt. That's ok, but simple sugars play a part too, as you really want the FG to be 1.012-1.015ish so it's quaffable and not like a barleywine. If it was underattenuated, and over 1.020 or so, it would have a definite sweet note and flavor and be a bit cloying.
One yeast pack would really be pushing it, and I'd expect it to stall out before finishing, especially with a high OG.

I've been brewing for a long time. While I'm a long way from an expert, I really believe that THE best way to improve a brewer's beer is by pitching the proper amount of yeast at the proper temperature and keeping it at the proper temperature. It really does make a huge difference!

 

[MNDan]

A paper towel rubber-banded over the top of the flask works well, too...

 

[homebrewbeliever]

What was the final gravity?

FG was 1.025. Not too bad, but a tad too sweet to drink copious amounts of

 

[homebrewbeliever]

An IIPA I make has 5% crystal malt. That's ok, but simple sugars play a part too, as you really want the FG to be 1.012-1.015ish so it's quaffable and not like a barleywine. If it was underattenuated, and over 1.020 or so, it would have a definite sweet note and flavor and be a bit cloying.
One yeast pack would really be pushing it, and I'd expect it to stall out before finishing, especially with a high OG.

I've been brewing for a long time. While I'm a long way from an expert, I really believe that THE best way to improve a brewer's beer is by pitching the proper amount of yeast at the proper temperature and keeping it at the proper temperature. It really does make a huge difference!

Thanks, Yooper. You have NEVER steered me wrong yet, so I believe you. Yeah, my IIPA finished at 1.025, which was a bit too sweet and more like a barley wine. It was still incredibly delicious, but it would have been much better if it had an FG around 1.015. In the case of this IIPA (again, OG of 1.096), would you have made a large starter or would you have just pitched multiple vials of yeast (I say vials because I am using White Lab's English Dry Ale yeast, which I really like for this beer)?

 

[Kealia]

Take a a look at this video from the Head of Lab Operations at WhiteLabs. I found this to be very interesting. Don't worry if you don't understand it all - you can keep coming back to it as your knowledge increases and you'll "get" more of it each time.

 

[Nomad]

Back in 1990, I popped my favorite cassette, Janes Addiction's Nothing's Shocking, into my stereo, expecting to hear the insane roar of big guitars and Perry Farrell roaring, "Comin down the Mountain," but instead I got treated to the underwater garble of Janes Addiction played over a stretched out cassette loop. I bought nothing but CDs from that day forward.

Last November I decided not to make a starter because I was fermenting a 1.040 Belgian as a step up for a Belgian Dark Strong that was going to clock in at 1.100. After I pitched the White Labs vial of yeast, it had at least 36 hours of lag time before fermenting, chugged along sluggishly,and left yeasty, sour notes in my beer. The beer had such amazing potential. I could taste a classic under that bad fermentation, but it was tainted because of the feeble ferment. I'm sure straight from the bottling line at White Labs or Wyeast, the product is primo, but who knows what can happen on the way to the LHBS.

Cassettes are making a comeback for some reason, but I'll never buy another one, and I'll always make a starter, even if Mr. Malty tells me otherwise

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, Yooper. You have NEVER steered me wrong yet, so I believe you. Yeah, my IIPA finished at 1.025, which was a bit too sweet and more like a barley wine. It was still incredibly delicious, but it would have been much better if it had an FG around 1.015. In the case of this IIPA (again, OG of 1.096), would you have made a large starter or would you have just pitched multiple vials of yeast (I say vials because I am using White Lab's English Dry Ale yeast, which I really like for this beer)?

I'm cheap, so I would have made the correctly sized starter, probably out of washed/saved yeast. (I get about 10 batches out of one vial/smack pack of yeast). Consult yeastcalc.com or mrmalty.com for the correct pitching amount for your batch, based on the age of the yeast. I like mrmalty.com for saved slurry, but I like yeastcalc.com for stepping up starters.

With an appropriately sized starter (assuming a recipe without a ton of unfermentables), I would expect a 1.096 IIPA to end up at 1.015 or so with that yeast strain (83% attenuation, just a bit above its average- I've pushed it even higher with more simple sugars).

 

[cluckk]

In answer to the question about doing a starter without a stir plate, I made them for a long time without one. Most calculators will tell give you volumes for either. One thing I and several others have done is to make the starter and pitch then keep the starter where it is convenient. I would make it in a gallon jug and keep it on the coffee table. In the evening when relaxing with TV, I'd swirl it every hour or so. Whenever walking through the room another swirl. Before bed give it a good long swirl. In the morning do it again. This should give you a good supply of oxygen for a healthy starter.

 

[BoShimTang]

I do not have a stir plate and I'm a grad student on a pretty tight budget... how long should I let the yeast propagate without a stir plate, and could I just use a growler with an airlock on it that I swirl occasionally throughout the day?

Don't use an airlock. Just cover the opening loosely with foil. I do this with Erlenmeyer flasks and then sanitize by baking at 400F for one hour. This might be too much for your growler but you can sanitize the foil in whatever manner you use to sanitize the growler.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Wow, thank you all so much! I really feel that I have a much better idea about why it is so important to pitch correctly, and I plan to only do so from now on. I do want to be the best brewer I can be, and I feel that I am one step closer now. My next batch, I will use a calculator to figure out how much slurry I will need and then make a starter by swirling it relatively often over 36-48 hours. When I make my next brew, I'm going to save some of my sparge and do what Yooper suggested. You all rock, and I'd be half the homebrewer I am if it wasn't for this community.

 

[kombat]

One thing I'll add is that I noticed a big difference when I added a stir plate to my starter regimen. Before, when I was just occasionally swirling my starter, their fermentation schedule varied wildly. But now that I use a stir plate, I know I'll have a layer of CO2 foam within 12 hours, a krausen within 18 hours, and it'll be completely done by 24 hours. It's remarkably consistent, and makes it much easier to plan a brew day.

 

[pabloj13]

Im not gonna argue that, because all of this is six of one and half a dozen of the other. For me, personally, i'd rather spend another 6 or 7 bucks on another vial and just pitch two into one since my work schedule is in constant flux and I like to plan on making the starter on a Thursday so its ready by Saturday when I brew. Your method isn't wrong and neither is mine, it all comes down to preference, time and the size of the flask ur working with (Dammit, I guess size does matter ).

You're right. It absolutely is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. However, this whole conversation started with:

No, you never need to use multiple packets of liquid yeast; just make a larger starter. I refuse to buy multiple $6 yeast packs out of principle, so I just make bigger starters. Sometimes two stage starters, like 1.5L then 3L.

People don't usually make starters with dry yeast, so yes, use multiple packs of dry yeast when needed.

That isn't always the case either though. Pick up Palmers How To Brew (Print copy, not the online edition), theres a chart there that shows how many packets and how many liters of starter u should use. Granted its not set in stone but is a guide to point u in the correction direction.

There are also a few threads on here about why u should use multiple vials/smack packs instead of just one with a huge amount of DME starter.

Speedyellow is right. You don't NEED multiple packs of liquid yeast. Are there times when it might make more sense to buy multiple packs? Maybe, but that depends on the brewer. I grow my yeast up from a couple billion cells from frozen stocks. To me it is worth a couple bucks worth of DME to have a never-ending supply of yeast. To others it might just be worth $6 to buy another pack. To each his own. However, you don't NEED multiple packs.

 

[Hermit]

A starter is also a 'proofing' stage. You KNOW you have active yeast when you pitch. That is a comforting thing.

 

[Pratzie]

I'm cheap, so I would have made the correctly sized starter, probably out of washed/saved yeast. (I get about 10 batches out of one vial/smack pack of yeast). Consult yeastcalc.com or mrmalty.com for the correct pitching amount for your batch, based on the age of the yeast. I like mrmalty.com for saved slurry, but I like yeastcalc.com for stepping up starters.

With an appropriately sized starter (assuming a recipe without a ton of unfermentables), I would expect a 1.096 IIPA to end up at 1.015 or so with that yeast strain (83% attenuation, just a bit above its average- I've pushed it even higher with more simple sugars).

Again Yooper adds to my knowledge base. Thanks for the yeastcalc.com website. I don't step my starters but if i ever decide to this looks like the best website to use for it.