Starter Problems

[doublehaul]

I think I may have pitched my yeast starter without it having gotten "started." I built a 2L starter, put on stir plate, added fermcap. I think it's tough to really see it's fermentation when you do this. Anyways, I pitched about 1.5L of it Sunday afternoon, and still have no visible sign of fermentation. How long can it sit - will it spoil eventually? And, I could get another starter going and ensure it ferments prior to pitching? Any advice?

 

[funnycreature]

Honestly, I never really saw vigorous fermentation. In my opinion it's not necessary because you want to start your yeast culture to get it multiplying and very active (log phase). Once the fermentation stage is reached, if I'm not mistaken, the yeast will slow down multiplication and metabolize mainly. But others might have more insight. Either way, I always pitched my starter cultures after max. 24 h.

EDIT: What do you consider "no signs of fermentation"?

 

[novahokie09]

I never see any visible fermentation (I'm assuming you're referencing krausen) using a stir plate. You will notice a change in color, however. The starter will start to look murky/yeasty. It's how you know you're building yeast counts.

In the future, do not use fermcap in starters. You should only be using DME, water, yeast nutrient, a healthy dose of O2 and of course the yeast from the vial. Don't add hops or fermcap.

With that said, it's time to take a specific gravity. If you haven't noticed a meaningful SG change from your OG, it's likely your starter was a dud.

Since it's been sitting since Sunday at room temperature (assumption), I'd just discard the wort because any bugs that were present will have had at least 72 hr to multiply. If the SG hasn't dropped, you can't count on the yeast activity to out compete the bugs.

In any case, what was the date listed on your yeast vial, at what temp did you pitch, and how old was the yeast you made the starter from?

 

[doublehaul]

EDIT: What do you consider "no signs of fermentation"?

It's in a bucket fermenter to fit in my fermentation fridge, so I can't see what's going in inside. So - airlock activity, change in temperature maybe.

Since it's been sitting since Sunday at room temperature (assumption), I'd just discard the wort because any bugs that were present will have had at least 72 hr to multiply. If the SG hasn't dropped, you can't count on the yeast activity to out compete the bugs.

Really? pitch the batch? I was thinking of pitching another properly fermented starter. I used fermcap because I made a 2L starter in a 2L beaker.

 

[woknblues]

Take a gravity reading. What kind of yeast were you using? What temp? At a lower temp with ferm cap and a low floc yeast, you might not see much of anything, or you are too low in temps and it hasn't "started up" yet.

 

[novahokie09]

The first thing you need to do is open the bucket and take a gravity reading.

If the gravity has not dropped, that means you have had no yeast activity, which means all "bugs" have had 72 hours to multiply in a sugary environment.

If you want, you can always do a starter and pitch again, but you most likely have a large quantity of bacteria existing in your wort. I would throw the wort away and start over. If you don't mind the results, pitch the yeast and see what happens. This advice is only applicable if your SG hasn't changed from the OG.

It's most likely that you're fine, and that the yeast has already fermented 50% since Sunday. You won't know without takeing the gravity reading though.

 

[SamBrewer]

As they have arleady told you you'll notice only a change in colour. Sometimes you can also notice some residuals sticked on the glass (sign of some foam formation), usually when the starter is big and you are using small stirrer.

It is important to consider the pitching rate of the starter or, sometimes called, Inoculation rate (in mills/ml). it' the ratio between inoculated yeast cells and ml of wort (millions/ml), you want that ratio to be at least 40 or more to have a fast fermenting starter with short lag time.

 

[doublehaul]

I'm sitting around 63-64F. I have a heat element in the mail! Yeast is harvested from a can of heady topper. I think I'll sit on it a week before I take a reading. I'd just expect some CO2 to be escaping and have a little airlock activity

 

[doublehaul]

The first thing you need to do is open the bucket and take a gravity reading.

If the gravity has not dropped, that means you have had no yeast activity, which means all "bugs" have had 72 hours to multiply in a sugary environment.

If you want, you can always do a starter and pitch again, but you most likely have a large quantity of bacteria existing in your wort. I would throw the wort away and start over. If you don't mind the results, pitch the yeast and see what happens. This advice is only applicable if your SG hasn't changed from the OG.

It's most likely that you're fine, and that the yeast has already fermented 50% since Sunday. You won't know without takeing the gravity reading though.

Good advice thanks. So, I have decided I will take a reading tonight. If it has not changed, what do you think If I were to pitch a couple packs of S-05? Will the S-05 yeast take care of the bacteria that has built up? Or what harm will the bacteria do?

EDIT - bought 2 packs S-05 on the way home. Got sanitizing water going for my wine theif, opened the fridge, airlock is bubbling in about 1s intervals! Wow so if it started this afternoon we're talking 4 days lag time. I've never used anything but "factory" yeast in the past, I may have to mix up when I pitch my starters. Anyways 14th batch - never too late for a newbie freak out! Let's see where my gravity ends up!