Heat Stick & Gas or Electric

[riverbeer]

Hello, very new to brewing, I've done an extract and a partial extract. I now see how important temp control is. Really want to get into full grain brewing. I've seen some talk about heat sticks and kinda like the idea.
I like to build my own stuff, but some things you don't monkey with and
dippin' electricity in water is one of them. I saw this on amazon [URL="http://www.amazon.com/MARSHALLTOWN-Premier-742G-Bucket-Heater/
and thought it be good for a MLT. What do you think?
I have access to NG, Propane & electricity(50 amps). I would like to know what you think is the safest, most idiot proof DIY system. I am leaning toward an electric system. They seem simpler to control heat and even though you're puttin' electricity in water you can protect yourself with the proper safety. Gas can go boom, so neither one is safe if you're not careful both can kill you.
I'm putting this out here lookin' for your thoughts on both the heat stick & gas or electric.

 

[fbold1]

Propane is used outdoors and electric is usually used indoors, a heat stick doesn't seem like a permanent solution.
I use induction right now for extract brewing and I am also building an all grain system with immersion heaters.

 

[crooow]

I use that exact same bucket heater for my HLT. I plug it into a dorkfood sous vide controller, dial in my strike temps, and in a little over an hour I'm good to go. It takes a while to get to temps, but the beauty of the controller is that I can go off and do some thing else like put my kids to bed or hang out with SWMBO while heating. I just need to know a little in advance when I'm going to be brewing. The time savings, in that sense, is awesome.

I too am interested in going fully electric (I boil on a stove), but I have this inherent fear of electricity and of killing myself. The bucket heater is a nice compromise. I plug it into a GFCI receptacle and it has an automatic shut off for running dry.

 

[kal]

I would like to know what you think is the safest, most idiot proof DIY system. I am leaning toward an electric system.

Not to toot my own horn too much but the system I designed for my own use was an electric DIY setup and I wanted it to be DIY, safe, last a long time and be easy to use.

I wanted all the thought to go into it upfront so I took my time and spent a year and a half or so designing and building so that once done I could focus on recipes and the other aspects of brewing that are fun for me. Some people like to tinker with equipment more than brewing (nothing wrong with that) but that isn't me. I wasn't interested in wrestling with equipment every time I brewed, or thinking "I should have done that differently".

Going electric was definitely part of that plan. There's no simple way to do what I did with gas indoors in a safe manner without an absolutely massive air evacuation system (and corresponding make-up air system).

No matter which method you choose, good luck and brew safe!

Kal

 

[riverbeer]

I use that exact same bucket heater for my HLT. I plug it into a dorkfood sous vide controller, dial in my strike temps, and in a little over an hour I'm good to go. It takes a while to get to temps, but the beauty of the controller is that I can go off and do some thing else like put my kids to bed or hang out with SWMBO while heating. I just need to know a little in advance when I'm going to be brewing. The time savings, in that sense, is awesome.

I too am interested in going fully electric (I boil on a stove), but I have this inherent fear of electricity and of killing myself. The bucket heater is a nice compromise. I plug it into a GFCI receptacle and it has an automatic shut off for running dry.

That is my thought on it. It's seems simple and foolproof. Thanks

 

[grathan]

A heating element can fail more unexpectedly than a propane tank emptying.

 

[kal]

A heating element can fail more unexpectedly than a propane tank emptying.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the comparison.

A propane tank will eventually empty, yes, since the gas is a consumable that is used up.

A heating element however is not a limited life span device. It's not like a light bulb that will eventually 'burn out'. They don't eventually all fail after a certain number (average) of hours of use.

Like anything else, a heating element may eventually fail of course. But to choose to not use one because it may fail one day would be like choosing to not drive a car because you may have engine trouble.

Kal

 

[grathan]

All it takes for a heating element to fail is to run it dry or too hot. The OP was asking about idiot proof which was where I was relating to.


If you were base your whole operation around an electric element and you left it on while draining a tank it could ruin your brew day. Again only in refrence to idiot proof.

I've only had 1 element fail, I was using it in a gallon of liquid that was also being heated by propane burner.


They do last a while, the ones in my home's hot water tank are 15 years old.



If I had the option of natural gas, I think that would be easiest. It would never run out and you wouldn't have to scrub nasty electric elements. Though I have never run any gas lines DIY.


The link for the bucket heater didn't work, I have looked at them before and they all seem like low wattage(long warmup times). With a GFCI and a properly grounded heatstick there really isn't a threat for putting a heatstick in water.

 

[kal]

Ah - of course. Good point.

Yes, some heating elements may fail if dry fired. The ULWD Camco ones that many brewers use are said to be immune to this but I have heard of some users who have indeed fried them anyway, it just takes longer.

Careful attention to the design and brewing process used can avoid having an element on while draining (my process does avoid this as mine is off when sparging) but you are correct that if someone isn't careful they may fry the element.

Kal

 

[jeffmeh]

I think it's much less likely for an element in a home water tank to fail before the tank fails, FWIW.

 

[fbold1]

My idea to keep the element from running dry would be a capacitive prox as a level sensor.

 

[riverbeer]

First off let me thank you for taking time to reply, this is hands down the friendliest and most helpful forum I have seen.
In the course of my research into electric brewing one name came up quite a number of times with good solid advice, Kal thank you for your time it takes for you to post.
fbold1 I am the king of dung hill, my first try was so horrible, I poured it out, oh lord I hope it doesn't kill my lawn. After all the time I spent researching beer brewing, nobody told me to boil with no lid, I missed the part about DMS and other such nasty chemicals. Thank you for your input.
I will eventually go all electric , but for now my BK will be gas. I want to mash with electric because I believe temp control is better. Okay, go at me gas boys.
Can you put a RIMS tube inside an MLT ,put the outflow on the bottom of the RIMS with coiled tubing back up toward the surface (maybe 3 coils) to create a whirlpool effect and to help stabilize the temps? Kind of a hybrid RIMS/HERMS. I tried to make a diagram on google sketch up, but being computer stupid ,that didn't work. I'll figure some kind of drawing to put up.
Once again thank all of you for your time and knowledge and I sure with all that I learn from here I'll be able to brew a beer that's drinkable and not kill my lawn. Time to pour another Blue Moon, Can't wait til I can make em'. Night.

 

[riverbeer]

I did some checking on the heat stick in my 1st post, the mfr said it is not for drinking water, but it's safe for an animal to drink. Don't quite get that.

 

[crooow]

I did some checking on the heat stick in my 1st post, the mfr said it is not for drinking water, but it's safe for an animal to drink. Don't quite get that.

There are old threads (that I can't find right now) that talk about this issue. The consensus seemed to be that the manufacturer probably didn't bother to get it government approved (since it's meant to be a bucket heater), but that it was probably fine.