brew sculptures single tier or 3 tier?

[twobears]

What are some pros and cons of each style? I'm graduating from extract brewing to all grain and, as a metal fabricator, I'm going to build a brew sculpture. My initial thought was to go with a single tier. To me it seems like it would be easier to operate having everything at countertop level. On the other hand a 3 tier setup would be a little bit cheaper (no need for pumps) and take up less floor space. Floor space isn't an issue and I would be willing to invest the extra few hundred dollars for the pumps if it made the system that much easier use. I realize I may have opened the old Ford vs Chevy argument. I just wanted others' opinions.

 

[Frige]

I have a 3 tier 10 gallon system. I am quite happy with it. It is easy to use and its on rollers so I can push it out of the way when not in use. I still have a pump, I use it to circulate between the hlt and the mash tun to get it up to temp.

 

[BrewingGunner]

I have a single tier. It is by far better. Next to no lifting at all, and easy access to all kettles.

 

[ChuckO]

I went with a single tier when I built a permanent setup. My major concern was having 6 gal. of very hot water that high in the air. Even with a very stable rig accidents will happen. With a higher center of gravity there is more chance for a tip over.

 

[Travestian]

I built a 3 tier system using wood. It has been the best addition to my brewery to date. I don't have to lift anything at all. My benefit was lower cost overall due to not requiring pumps. Also I can store all my equipment under the stand when not in use.

 

[DPBISME]

I have a three tier and it does have some drawbacks... I just live with them.

The top of my Hot Water Tank is about eight (8) feet in the air...

Filling the top keggle (HWT) has to be watched very carefully so you don't over fill it... Over filling it dribbles down in the the Kettle.

The pipe from the HWT to the does not drain very fast and you have to play with it to get the last of the hot water out... You can't just turn it off, and let it go because it will drain hot ware all over the place. Same for the tube from the Mash Tun to the Kettle.... moving hot stuff around needs to be watched carefully.

Make sure that since the Kettle has to fit inside the structure, instead of just sitting on its own level, that you make it wide enough to put in and bull out easily...

DPB

From the Kettle to the fermentor I have a March Pump so this is not an issue.

DPB

 

[rjbank]

I built this recently. I have no more than $100 in the wood stands and there is no worries of them falling over. My goal was cheap and simple. Being that your metal fabricator I would probably go single.

 

[kh54s10]

I also built a wooden 3 tier for cost reasons mainly. I have no pumps. I also have plumbed it so I can fill the HLT without lifting any water. The only time I lift anything heavy is to dump the spent wort.

 

[twobears]

Thanks. All are good points, most of which I was already keeping in mind. I have installed city water and natural gas already in my garage. I plan on plumbing my brew structure so I won't have to transfer water manually or even move a hose from kettle to kettle. Just open the valve to the kettle I want to fill. Another thing I'm planning to do is use 3 burners so I won't have to transfer hot water, I can also heat the water in HLT at the same time the mash is going on. I had a feeling the single tier setup was a better way to go I just wanted to hear it from people that have actually done all grain brewing. Thanks again.

 

[BrokenDog]

I've got a single tier 3 burner direct fire RIMS and really like it. It was a bit expensive, but after running side by side with my buddy's cobbed together system that has no way to heat or recurculate the mash, I would never go back.

 

[atoughram]

I have a two tier system where the HLT is the only kettle up high. The MT and the BK are at the same level and a pump is used. Cant find a newer picture but here it is right after I built it. The RIMS tube has been remounted and all of the hoses and connectors have been replaced with QD's but it's the same system.

 

[Monster Mash]

Everybody's needs are different so it is really what YOU want out of your system. A single tier requires pumps, a 3 tier doesn't but you'll want one anyways.

I have a 2 tier because I like to gravity feed my BK....

 

[Yooper]

I used to have a two-tier system, with a gravity drain to the BK but in order to get all the wort out I had to have the stand higher than I wanted (I'm short, and had to stand on a stepstool to stir the mash.

With a two-tier, you can fly or batch sparge if you gravity drain. With a single tier, you have to have two pumps if you're going to fly sparge.

I changed it up, and made it a single tier system. This way, I can see in all the vessels and well as stir the MLT without any problems, and don't have to gravity drain since I added the second pump. I really like it so much better.

 

[DubBrew]

I have a single tier as well. I think you've nailed most of the pros vs. cons and it sounds like you are willing to invest the extra dollars for the single tier. I used to use a three tier strictly due to the cost of the single tier. Personally now that I have the single it is noticeably easier to use than my three tier. I think the only down side for me was the cost of the extra pump.

 

[bd2xu]

I have a 3 tier wood with no pumps. Works great my only issue is transferring from my bk which is a keggle to the fermenter. I am still trying to find a good setup where I can transfer via the ball valve while leaving the hop sludge and break behind. Could use a pump for the transfer. Pumps, in addition to the cost, also require cleaning. And when you're using a pump to go from bk to kettle it has to be sanitized. I'd like to hear from users of pump driven systems how much work the cleaning adds.

 

[Yooper]

I have a 3 tier wood with no pumps. Works great my only issue is transferring from my bk which is a keggle to the fermenter. I am still trying to find a good setup where I can transfer via the ball valve while leaving the hop sludge and break behind. Could use a pump for the transfer. Pumps, in addition to the cost, also require cleaning. And when you're using a pump to go from bk to kettle it has to be sanitized. I'd like to hear from users of pump driven systems how much work the cleaning adds.

Cleaning and sanitizing the pump(s) adds no extra work at all.

When you clean the BK, you can clean the pump as well. What I typically do is sparge through one pump (the "water only") pump and that's it. For the pump that the wort passes through for the HERMS and sparging, I sanitize it by recirculating wort for the last 15 minutes of the boil. I sanitize the chiller at that time, too, by the recirculation. Then I turn on the hose for chilling after the boil. Once the day is over, I put hot water through the chiller and pump and into the BK to clean. I often clean in place (CIP) but about every second time or so, I take the BK off of the stand and really clean it. I recirculate PBW/water and then rinse when I CIP.

 

[BrokenDog]

I have a single tier as well. I think you've nailed most of the pros vs. cons and it sounds like you are willing to invest the extra dollars for the single tier. I used to use a three tier strictly due to the cost of the single tier. Personally now that I have the single it is noticeably easier to use than my three tier. I think the only down side for me was the cost of the extra pump.

I think that is pretty much it, if you can swing the cost of a single tier it's worth the extra for less hassle. Although thinking back now I realize how much beer I would have to make to ever come close to justifying the cost if you consider what your time is worth.

 

[twobears]

As far as I'm concerned, if I spend the money to build a 3 tier system, eventually, I will upgrade to a single tier. I would be further ahead to spend an extra couple bucks now than to spend the money later on a whole new sculpture. Thanks for all the info. I do like that 2 tier setup also but how do you transfer to the fementer with the BK so close to the floor? Seems to me even with a 2 tier, you would still need two pumps unless you heft the full BK to a location higher than the fermenter.....or am I confused?

 

[Yooper]

As far as I'm concerned, if I spend the money to build a 3 tier system, eventually, I will upgrade to a single tier. I would be further ahead to spend an extra couple bucks now than to spend the money later on a whole new sculpture. Thanks for all the info. I do like that 2 tier setup also but how do you transfer to the fementer with the BK so close to the floor? Seems to me even with a 2 tier, you would still need two pumps unless you heft the full BK to a location higher than the fermenter.....or am I confused?

Since you're done using the pump from moving the water for the sparge, you could use the pump from the BK to the fermenter, or from the BK through the chiller.

 

[Braufessor]

I have a 3 tier from MOrebeer.... 10 gallon pots, makes about 6.5 gallons after boil. I have had it for 15 years or so. Hooked up to natural gas. I have been considering going to a 10 gallon system for the last two years - another morebeer setup. Been looking at the single tier and tippy dump styles...... but every time I brew on my 3 tier I keep coming back to the simplicity of gravity. Mine is smaller than what you are talking, so height is not really an issue - I can easily dump gallon or 3 gallon jugs of water in the Hot water sparge pot at the top. The top of the mash tun is around chest height - so easy to stir while standing (I am only 5-8 or so). Boil kettle is just high enough to put a bucket or carboy under the spigot for emptying at the end.

Now - if the height were to get to the point where I had to stand on stools, my opinion might change about 3 tier. However, I love the simplicity of gravity. No messing with pumps, etc..... less to clean. Less chance of something hiding somewhere to infect, etc.

All of that said - there are lots and lots of people who make outstanding beer on single tiers and love the pumps, etc. Also, if you are "eventually" going to go to single tier at some point - do it now, and do it right. The only regrets I have ever had in brewing purchases were the times where I tried to save a few bucks, only to later need to spend more money for upgrades at some point.

I can easily say the purchase of my 3 tier (15 years ago, for $1500 or so) is by far the best purchase I have ever made in my life - it makes brew day great. Over time, the money it costs is spread out and becomes rather minimal really.

 

[LandoLincoln]

What are some pros and cons of each style? I'm graduating from extract brewing to all grain and, as a metal fabricator, I'm going to build a brew sculpture. My initial thought was to go with a single tier. To me it seems like it would be easier to operate having everything at countertop level. On the other hand a 3 tier setup would be a little bit cheaper (no need for pumps) and take up less floor space. Floor space isn't an issue and I would be willing to invest the extra few hundred dollars for the pumps if it made the system that much easier use. I realize I may have opened the old Ford vs Chevy argument. I just wanted others' opinions.

Single tier = have to have a pump, but no height restrictions
3-tier = can use pump or gravity, but height restrictions

I have a pump, but I also have a 3-tier. I use gravity for draining into the mash tun and into the boil kettle, but use the pump for transferring into fermentors.

 

[BrewingGunner]

I can easily say the purchase of my 3 tier (15 years ago, for $1500 or so) is by far the best purchase I have ever made in my life - it makes brew day great. Over time, the money it costs is spread out and becomes rather minimal really.

I just built a single tier and spent less than $1500. It was also extremely satisfying to build my own stand. I've used gravity for years. This single tier is much easier to brew on and on the back. It's also extremely easy to clean. The pumps do all the work. I use the warm cooling water with PBW and pump it through. Next to no manual labor. Well worth the time spent building it, and money spent on it.