HERMS "Nuts and Bolts

[reuliss]

I've been researching for a while the difference between a HERMS and RIMS system, and I've reached the point where I've decided that the concept of a HERMS system appeals to me. But, some of the technology needed to make the system automated is something that I do not fully understand, and I'm hoping that some of you can provide some more details that might clear up some of the things that I don't yet "get" regarding how it actually works.

First, I plan on a copper heat exchange in the HLT. I understand that the wort recirculates from the mash tun through the heat exchange and back to the mash tun. What I don't get is how this becomes completely automated on, say, a single tier system.

Assume that the system would be continuous recirculation. That would mean that a PID, I guess, would somehow control the heat applied to the HLT in order to heat the wort to the appropriate temperature going back to the mash tun. If the HLT were heated by an electric element, I get how the PID/Temp controller would simply turn the heat plate on and off as needed. But how to folks adjust the heat to the HLT who use propane? I don't get how the flame is turned on and off.

Is there an alternative way to "automate" the HERMS system? For example, would it work to keep a flame on the HLT the entire time, but not control the temp of the HLT, and simply have the recirculation pump turn on and off as the mash temperature dictates?

I guess I'm just confused. While I get the theory behind a HERMS system, I don't understand how the "nuts and bolts" work and what items I would need to buy to make it work. Any help or clarification is much appreciated!

 

[Yooper]

My system isn't automated, but it's all electric and my HERMS is in the HLT, which holds temperature with a PID. I recirculate continuously, rather slowly, until I want to mash out and then I open the ball valve on the pump wider while I bump up the temp on the HLT.

I had a PID on the boil kettle, but I switched that out and now use a PWM for the boil kettle.

 

[reuliss]

My system isn't automated, but it's all electric and my HERMS is in the HLT, which holds temperature with a PID. I recirculate continuously, rather slowly, until I want to mash out and then I open the ball valve on the pump wider while I bump up the temp on the HLT.

I had a PID on the boil kettle, but I switched that out and now use a PWM for the boil kettle.

Yooper, if I understand correctly, one way to control the mash temp is to change the rate of recirculation? If that's correct, does it matter if there is anything controlling the temp of the HLT?

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, if I understand correctly, one way to control the mash temp is to change the rate of recirculation? If that's correct, does it matter if there is anything controlling the temp of the HLT?

Yes, it matters. If the water in the HLT is 180, you can denature the enzymes in the mash as the liquid goes through the heat exchanger, plus you wouldn't be able to maintain a mash temp easily of 152 (as an example).

The whole purpose of a HERMS is to maintain a steady mash temperature. Having the HEX in the HLT works great for me, as I need about a 3 degree differential in the water in the HLT for my mash temp. If I want to maintain a 153 degree mash, I just set my HLT temperature to 156, and it's perfect. If the water temperature dropped, or raised, that would make the proper mash temperature very difficult to maintain.

 

[reuliss]

Yes, it matters. If the water in the HLT is 180, you can denature the enzymes in the mash as the liquid goes through the heat exchanger, plus you wouldn't be able to maintain a mash temp easily of 152 (as an example).

The whole purpose of a HERMS is to maintain a steady mash temperature. Having the HEX in the HLT works great for me, as I need about a 3 degree differential in the water in the HLT for my mash temp. If I want to maintain a 153 degree mash, I just set my HLT temperature to 156, and it's perfect. If the water temperature dropped, or raised, that would make the proper mash temperature very difficult to maintain.

Got it. So, what piece of electric equipment do you use to maintain your HLT temp?

 

[luhrks]

She already told you. She uses as PID.

In it's simplest form, you use a Ranco or Johnson temp controller as your PID. You have a temp probe (thermometer) connected to the device that reads the temp in the HLT (thermowell with temp probe inserted). If the HLT temp drops below a set temperature, the PID turns on electricity to either power your HLT heating element (electric brewing) or your gas solenoid (Gas brewing). When the temp in the HLT reaches the set temp, it turns off the power to you heating device.

That's it. There's no "mystery" stuff going on here.

 

[reuliss]

She already told you. She uses as PID.

In it's simplest form, you use a Ranco or Johnson temp controller as your PID. You have a temp probe (thermometer) connected to the device that reads the temp in the HLT (thermowell with temp probe inserted). If the HLT temp drops below a set temperature, the PID turns on electricity to either power your HLT heating element (electric brewing) or your gas solenoid (Gas brewing). When the temp in the HLT reaches the set temp, it turns off the power to you heating device.

That's it. There's no "mystery" stuff going on here.

What I was asking was what KIND of heating element she uses. Sorry If this is all so simple for you. No need to condescend.

 

[Yooper]

What I was asking was what KIND of heating element she uses. Sorry If this is all so simple for you. No need to condescend.

What kind of element? It's a 5500 w element.

 

[reuliss]

What kind of element? It's a 5500 w element.

Yooper, thank you. I guess I need to research more about solenoid valves and how to trigger propane burners if I'm going to go that route with my energy source. My apologies to you if my question was ambiguous.

 

[luhrks]

What I was asking was what KIND of heating element she uses. Sorry If this is all so simple for you. No need to condescend.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, and I apologize if it came across that way. It seemed like you weren't getting the concepts so I figured I'd break it down for you.

If you're really looking for the practical how to for either gas or electric HERMS brewing, please look in either the Electric Brewing forums, or the Automated brewing forums. There's plenty of step by step builds with full parts lists etc.

 

[reuliss]

I wasn't trying to be condescending, and I apologize if it came across that way. It seemed like you weren't getting the concepts so I figured I'd break it down for you.

If you're really looking for the practical how to for either gas or electric HERMS brewing, please look in either the Electric Brewing forums, or the Automated brewing forums. There's plenty of step by step builds with full parts lists etc.

Thank you.