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S.R.S

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So now on my 3rd extract brew which is a Young's AIPA which I have just bottled.
Now all three different kits I have done are far from perfect. I understand extract kits will not produce as good a result as all grain but I was hoping for something a little less of the same taste. I can't decide if it's a yeast, hops (dont think so) taste. The taste is not dissimilar to the homebrew taste I had from kits years ago but I was hoping with the improvement of kits today, the result would be better.
Maybe I am expecting too much but I have absolutely followed instructions, read posts on the forum and even John Palmer's How to Brew!
What to do?!
Should I be looking at the next stage up?
Advice hugely appreciated.
 
With good process an extract kit can be as good as an all grain beer or better if the all grain was lacking in the process. One of the biggest improvements in my beer came when I started taking fermentation temperature seriously. Pitching an adequate amount of yeast is good practice too.

Tell us about your process.
 
Agree with @bucketnative that you need to give us more information.

BTW, I've had others' extract brews which have been excellent, so there's nothing endemic in extract that HAS to be bad. Instead, I suspect that the tendency of extract brews to have "that flavor" is more related to brewers' inexperience or errors, and not extract per se.

Here are several things you might work to improve (if you are not already doing them):

1. How's your water? My son used to brew extracts; when he switched to using RO (reverse osmosis) water, his beers took a leap forward. Your local water may or may not be a culprit here. For instance, is the water chlorinated and are you doing anything to offset that, if so?

2. Do you control fermentation temperature? Most brewers would probably tell you fermentation temp control was a huge leap forward for them. That is, with most ales you want temps during fermentation in the 60s. Yeast is exothermic, meaning it produces heat while it ferments the beer, and that can raise the temp of the beer 5 to 10 degrees above ambient temp. You can't go by what your room temp is, in other words.

There are ways around this. You can use a ferm chamber (typically a refrigerator or chest freezer), even a swamp cooler to keep temps down. As most yeast rises in temps it starts to throw off off-flavors you don't want in your beer. There are a few exceptions to this (farmhouse or saisons, for instance), but mostly you want to control your fermentation temps.

There also is a style of yeast called Kveik ("Kwike") that isn't that sensitive to fermentation temps, producing good beer even up into the 90s. It's a liquid yeast, not the powdered yeast you're likely using.

3. How do you bottle? The enemy of beer after fermentation is oxidation, and this is especially the case with IPAs; the oxidation attacks hop aroma and flavor, muting it in a relatively short period of time. Are you doing anything that can limit oxidation?

4. Is your equipment CLEAN and sanitized? Unlikely at this early point in your brewing career that you'd have an infection, but it's possible.

*********

I'm a big believer in continuous quality improvement. That is, every time you brew, try to do something better. Over time, you'll approach that perfection you seek, never reaching it, but getting near.

Along those lines, I'd suggest brewing the same kit or style 2 or 3 times, trying to dial it in. If you change the kit or recipe every time, how can you tell if the problems are due to recipe or something else? You can't. I'd focus, if I were you, on dialing in a recipe, and only then branching out to other styles or recipes. The trick is to think about where you want to be in brewing six months from now.

I know that's hard. Lots to learn about in brewing, all this weird vocabulary (strike water, sparge, tun, pitch, mash, etc. etc.), and while it's not rocket science, it's not simplistic, either. It takes time to learn.

Of all the things brewers struggle to learn, the biggest one is....patience.
 
What times have you brewed and are the kits 100% extract, or are you doing stepping grains and mini mashes?

I always preferred my extract batches that had some grain in the recipe over the pure extract kits I did.
 
I noticed a change (not a huge one albeit) when I made the switch to all-grain. Like the others said though, we need more info to be able to help point you in the right direction. Are you having issues with off-flavors, head retention, staleness, etc. Once you get the group going in the right direction, we may not be able to stop offering ideas/advice...haha.
 
So now on my 3rd extract brew which is a Young's AIPA which I have just bottled.
Now all three different kits I have done are far from perfect. I understand extract kits will not produce as good a result as all grain but I was hoping for something a little less of the same taste. I can't decide if it's a yeast, hops (dont think so) taste. The taste is not dissimilar to the homebrew taste I had from kits years ago but I was hoping with the improvement of kits today, the result would be better.
Maybe I am expecting too much but I have absolutely followed instructions, read posts on the forum and even John Palmer's How to Brew!
What to do?!
Should I be looking at the next stage up?
Advice hugely appreciated.
What styles were the three kits? Similar or different?
Extract can be just as good as all grain if done well.
 
So now on my 3rd extract brew which is a Young's AIPA which I have just bottled.
Now all three different kits I have done are far from perfect. I understand extract kits will not produce as good a result as all grain but I was hoping for something a little less of the same taste. I can't decide if it's a yeast, hops (dont think so) taste. The taste is not dissimilar to the homebrew taste I had from kits years ago but I was hoping with the improvement of kits today, the result would be better.
Maybe I am expecting too much but I have absolutely followed instructions, read posts on the forum and even John Palmer's How to Brew!
What to do?!
Should I be looking at the next stage up?
Advice hugely appreciated.

Is this the kit: https://www.youngsgroup.co.uk/catalogue/beers/real-ales/american-ipa-40kg-ipa-126-detail

and are these the kit instructions: https://www.youngsgroup.co.uk/images/instructions/New American Beer Kit Instructions1.pdf
 
What are the exact flavor/flavor profiles that you are not liking in your beer? If you can pinpoint what the offflavors are... you can start to figure out where in your process it's coming from.

I see you brewed and IPA extract kit.

IPA's are not forgiving beers to brew. Any flaw in your process will show itself in the finished product. Also, water profile is super important with IPA's, brewing extracts it's a little more difficult to adjust water chemistry since the grains have already been mashed, etc. So even if you have really good technique (pitch rates, fermentation temp control, sanitiation, post fermenation oxygen reduction, etc) you still may not achieve the desired flavor profile from an extract IPA... you can make a very good, very drinkable beer, but it may not be as close to the commercial examples as you hoped. Darker beers are good for extract kits, they are more forgiving in general and they age well (mostly).

Extract Brewing Tips

1) Use distilled or RO water
2) Get the wort down to proper pitching temp
3) Proper pitch rates (make a starter if using liquid yeast)
4) Control fermentation temps (this is so important...seriously)
5) Have a good packaging technique (kegging preferred), try to minimize oxygen pickup during bottling.

IPA Tips

1) Water is super important in these beers, people do adjust water chemistry for extract IPA's, do some research and see what others are doing (I have no idea what they do).

2) Yeast selection is super important

3) Reducing oxygen pickup post fermenation (closed loop transfer is key, purging bottles, etc.)

There's tons of threads on all of these topics....

Really focus on what it is you don't like (flavor wise) about your beer, do some research on those specific flavors and see why they are there, and how you can avoid them.

Cheers !!!
 
Took a quick look at the kit and instructions. Go buy a quality kit and try again. I too would stay away from IPA's until you get your processes down pat.
 

Thanks all for so many responses, yes that is the kit exactly and the instructions, correct.

To talk through the process, this has been as follows.

1. Sanitizing using VWP steriliser. This is after washing all kit post last brew and pre next one. My sterilising is very thorough and I don't believe this is an issue.

2. Rehydrate dry yeast at circa 24c with 2 cups of sterile water. Although the instructions say to just sprinkle in the dry yeast, I found by rehydrating this time, it made a huge difference and fermentation was much more active from the outset.

3. Wort from kit is poured into sterilised Cooper's fermenting vessel that came with the 1st of the three extract kits I have done. 1st kit I bought was an Australian Pale Ale using the fermenting vessel supplied in this kit.

https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/COOPERS_40_pint_5_gallons_Lager_Starter_kit.html

Note the fermenting vessel supplied is not totally airtight as it has a krausen collar and a lid that moves freely up and down with the krausen. This is a trusted vessel that others have used I believe so should serve the purpose perfectly fine.

4. 3 litres of boiled tap water is poured into the fermenting vessel and mixed thoroughly and 20 litres of cold tap water is added to the mix. Perhaps using tap water is not ideal before boiling it but would this make such a huge difference? The kit says to use cold tap water anyway.

5. When mix reaches 22c, I pitch the yeast into wort that has been vigorously aerated and keep the temperature at 22c (instructions say to ferment between 20-24c) using a brew belt plugged into a digital temperature controller with a temp sensor probe. The Probe is taped to the outside of the fermenter and insulated well with kitchen towel to avoid reading ambient temps. I also have stick on thermometers that tie in with the same temps.

6. Although the instructions say to ferment for 2 week, with the Cooper's kit I fermented for 3 weeks before bottling. In all cases I check the FG is consistent over a 2/3 day period. The other Young's kit which is the APA that uses the same instructions as the AIPA, I fermented for 2 weeks before bottling and finally this latest brew, the AIPA I fermented for 3 weeks and dry hopped in the last week. The exact days were brewed for 24 days, dry hopped for 10 days.

7. All plastic PET bottles are cleaned and sterilised thoroughly as are some new glass bottles I bought recently.

8. Before I bottle I rack into a bottling vessel using tubing connected to the tap of the Cooper’s vessel and below the line of the priming sugar in the bottling bucket. I use priming sugar supplied and this time I boiled the sugar solution and poured this into the vessel before transferring the beer.

The difference with this transfer to others was that I used a sterilised (boiled water) muslin hop bag on the outflow of the tube as when I came to bottle there was a lot of hop residue and yeast (I believe) floating in the vessel. Most of it had settled to the bottom but due to the amount of hops supplied in this kit and as I dry hopped loose pellets this time, despite cold crashing for 2/3 days in the fridge, the beer was still incredibly cloudy.

9. When time to bottle, annoyingly, the coopers bottling wand is too large for the bottling vessel’s tap so I use the syphon and adapt one end using a plastic tap that came with the syphon to connect one end to the bottling bucket’s tap.

I don’t believe this process has caused excess oxidation. The point is all 3 kits that have been bottled slightly differently have all resulted in this not dissimilar end taste.

1st kit was bottled directly from the Cooper’s fermenting vessel using the bottling wand supplied and priming with carbonation drops. The 2nd kit, I actually filled the bottles slowly directly from the tap (agreed this could increase chances of oxidation) and this 3rd kit as previously explained.

10. Finally I am carbing for 2 weeks currently at 25c and will take out and place in cooler temps. for a further 2 weeks. John Palmer explains to carb in warm temps up to 30c, the kit instructions just say warm without giving a temperature.

The previous Young’s IPA kit was kept in warm temps at 22c for 2 weeks before cooler temps for another 2 weeks.

In both cases I keep bottles in a plastic vessel with a lid large enough to hold circa 30 bottles, half fill with water and keep the temperature constant using an aquarium heater.

So hopefully I haven’t missed anything if you haven’t yet fallen asleep any suggestions/ideas would be most welcome, thank you.

BTW, I live in London so have no reason to think the tap water is not useable.
 
+1 Fermentaion temp control
I'll add, "patience". Fermenting, bottle conditioning, and in general.

That has got to be one of the hardest things to do when you first start, at least for me, that can make a huge impact on your beer.

Give those yeast the time they need to do their job!
 
Ok, so a no boil. Not very familiar with those myself. You'll find more interesting flavor and fresher tastes if you move to steeping grains with extract, but it will require a boil & chill, which with extract can be a small 8-10L boil on stovetop, so it might be outside the amount of effort you're willing to provide. But that would provide a fresher flavor and something possibly more interesting than simply using only extract.
 
If my conversion to F is correct those are some relatively high pitching and fermenting temps. The fermenting beer in the vessel may be a few degrees or more warmer than the ambient temp... so you could have very well hit the upper 70 or 80 degrees F.... which is too warm in my opinion for an ale. I'd try and get those temps down, and keep them down for the first 72 hours after fermentation starts.

Unless you are doing a closed system transfer you are picking up oxygen along the way... there's no way around it. Bottling ipa's with just a bottling bucket and wand ... the beer will get oxidized... it just happens.

I'd try an extract kit with steeping grains and kettle hop additions, maybe try a porter or stout... and try and get those pitching and fermentation temps down and you may get some great results.
 
What's your current process? Do you control fermentation temperature? Do you bottle/keg? Need more information to help.
Hi, I will try and respond individually but I have outlined my technique near the bottom of the post.
 
With good process an extract kit can be as good as an all grain beer or better if the all grain was lacking in the process. One of the biggest improvements in my beer came when I started taking fermentation temperature seriously. Pitching an adequate amount of yeast is good practice too.

Tell us about your process.
hi, process outlined above
 
Agree with @bucketnative that you need to give us more information.

BTW, I've had others' extract brews which have been excellent, so there's nothing endemic in extract that HAS to be bad. Instead, I suspect that the tendency of extract brews to have "that flavor" is more related to brewers' inexperience or errors, and not extract per se.

Here are several things you might work to improve (if you are not already doing them):

1. How's your water? My son used to brew extracts; when he switched to using RO (reverse osmosis) water, his beers took a leap forward. Your local water may or may not be a culprit here. For instance, is the water chlorinated and are you doing anything to offset that, if so?
- local london Thames tap water, so I expect it us chlorinated.
- what is ro water, is this the same as distilled?

2. Do you control fermentation temperature? Most brewers would probably tell you fermentation temp control was a huge leap forward for them. That is, with most ales you want temps during fermentation in the 60s. Yeast is exothermic, meaning it produces heat while it ferments the beer, and that can raise the temp of the beer 5 to 10 degrees above ambient temp. You can't go by what your room temp is, in other words.
- yes very much controlled in ny process explained in the post.

There are ways around this. You can use a ferm chamber (typically a refrigerator or chest freezer), even a swamp cooler to keep temps down. As most yeast rises in temps it starts to throw off off-flavors you don't want in your beer. There are a few exceptions to this (farmhouse or saisons, for instance), but mostly you want to control your fermentation temps.

There also is a style of yeast called Kveik ("Kwike") that isn't that sensitive to fermentation temps, producing good beer even up into the 90s. It's a liquid yeast, not the powdered yeast you're likely using.

3. How do you bottle? The enemy of beer after fermentation is oxidation, and this is especially the case with IPAs; the oxidation attacks hop aroma and flavor, muting it in a relatively short period of time. Are you doing anything that can limit oxidation?
- see process explanation

4. Is your equipment CLEAN and sanitized? Unlikely at this early point in your brewing career that you'd have an infection, but it's possible.
- definitely

*********

I'm a big believer in continuous quality improvement. That is, every time you brew, try to do something better. Over time, you'll approach that perfection you seek, never reaching it, but getting near.

Along those lines, I'd suggest brewing the same kit or style 2 or 3 times, trying to dial it in. If you change the kit or recipe every time, how can you tell if the problems are due to recipe or something else? You can't. I'd focus, if I were you, on dialing in a recipe, and only then branching out to other styles or recipes. The trick is to think about where you want to be in brewing six months from now.

I know that's hard. Lots to learn about in brewing, all this weird vocabulary (strike water, sparge, tun, pitch, mash, etc. etc.), and while it's not rocket science, it's not simplistic, either. It takes time to learn.

Of all the things brewers struggle to learn, the biggest one is....patience.
 
Agree with @bucketnative that you need to give us more information.

BTW, I've had others' extract brews which have been excellent, so there's nothing endemic in extract that HAS to be bad. Instead, I suspect that the tendency of extract brews to have "that flavor" is more related to brewers' inexperience or errors, and not extract per se.

Here are several things you might work to improve (if you are not already doing them):

1. How's your water? My son used to brew extracts; when he switched to using RO (reverse osmosis) water, his beers took a leap forward. Your local water may or may not be a culprit here. For instance, is the water chlorinated and are you doing anything to offset that, if so?
- local london Thames tap water, so I expect it us chlorinated.
- what is ro water, is this the same as distilled?

2. Do you control fermentation temperature? Most brewers would probably tell you fermentation temp control was a huge leap forward for them. That is, with most ales you want temps during fermentation in the 60s. Yeast is exothermic, meaning it produces heat while it ferments the beer, and that can raise the temp of the beer 5 to 10 degrees above ambient temp. You can't go by what your room temp is, in other words.
- yes very much controlled in ny process explained in the post.

There are ways around this. You can use a ferm chamber (typically a refrigerator or chest freezer), even a swamp cooler to keep temps down. As most yeast rises in temps it starts to throw off off-flavors you don't want in your beer. There are a few exceptions to this (farmhouse or saisons, for instance), but mostly you want to control your fermentation temps.

There also is a style of yeast called Kveik ("Kwike") that isn't that sensitive to fermentation temps, producing good beer even up into the 90s. It's a liquid yeast, not the powdered yeast you're likely using.

3. How do you bottle? The enemy of beer after fermentation is oxidation, and this is especially the case with IPAs; the oxidation attacks hop aroma and flavor, muting it in a relatively short period of time. Are you doing anything that can limit oxidation?
- see process explanation

4. Is your equipment CLEAN and sanitized? Unlikely at this early point in your brewing career that you'd have an infection, but it's possible.
- definitely

*********

I'm a big believer in continuous quality improvement. That is, every time you brew, try to do something better. Over time, you'll approach that perfection you seek, never reaching it, but getting near.

Along those lines, I'd suggest brewing the same kit or style 2 or 3 times, trying to dial it in. If you change the kit or recipe every time, how can you tell if the problems are due to recipe or something else? You can't. I'd focus, if I were you, on dialing in a recipe, and only then branching out to other styles or recipes. The trick is to think about where you want to be in brewing six months from now.

I know that's hard. Lots to learn about in brewing, all this weird vocabulary (strike water, sparge, tun, pitch, mash, etc. etc.), and while it's not rocket science, it's not simplistic, either. It takes time to learn.

Of all the things brewers struggle to learn, the biggest one is....patience.
 
I've tried to reply to individual questions in the above 2 posts and have clearly failed but have outlined my process further above
 
If my conversion to F is correct those are some relatively high pitching and fermenting temps. The fermenting beer in the vessel may be a few degrees or more warmer than the ambient temp... so you could have very well hit the upper 70 or 80 degrees F.... which is too warm in my opinion for an ale. I'd try and get those temps down, and keep them down for the first 72 hours after fermentation starts.

Unless you are doing a closed system transfer you are picking up oxygen along the way... there's no way around it. Bottling ipa's with just a bottling bucket and wand ... the beer will get oxidized... it just happens.

I'd try an extract kit with steeping grains and kettle hop additions, maybe try a porter or stout... and try and get those pitching and fermentation temps down and you may get some great results.
when I mentioned the temperatures I was actually referring to the temp of the liquid and not ambient temps so it might not be as high as you think.
When the instructions refer to a temp range of 20-24c, I assumed it was referring to temperature of the liquid and this is what I have based mine on.
 
yes that is the kit exactly and the instructions, correct.

Thank you.

Two immediate thoughts:

20c == 68f; 22c == 71.6; 24c == 75.2 (via duckduckgo's conversion). This range is too high for many strains of ale yeast used with ales and IPAs.

With malt extract, water quality needs to be addressed: remove chlorine and/or chloramine, the water should be low in dissolved minerals.
 
Now all three different kits I have done are far from perfect. I understand extract kits will not produce as good a result as all grain but I was hoping for something a little less of the same taste. I can't decide if it's a yeast, hops (dont think so) taste. The taste is not dissimilar to the homebrew taste I had from kits years ago but I was hoping with the improvement of kits today, the result would be better.

Sorry, I didn't give you anything "action-able" in my previous reply.

Are you buying your kits from a local home brew store or online? If local, consider bringing along a sample bottle (if permitted by local laws) and ask them for advice.

Is there a local homebrewing community (clubs, online groups, ...) that would have a good understanding of your water quality?

At the risk of repeating what others have said... I will suggest two changes.

1. Ferment no higher than 20c.

2. Use distilled water or RO (reverse osmosis) water. Spring water that is low in dissolved minerals will so work.
 
people do adjust water chemistry for extract IPA's, do some research and see what others are doing (I have no idea what they do).

How To Brew, 4e, chapter 8 pp 134 - 136 has a section on how to use brewing salts with extract-based recipes. The section title is "Adding Brewing Salts to Season Your Beer" (emphasis added). Pay close attention to the words as they accurately describe what is done. It's not water chemistry. It is adding small amounts of one brewing salt to tip the balance of the wort towards either hoppy or malty.

Brewing Engineering, chapter 14 has more detailed information. If one is a eBook reader, it's often a $5 purchase. Think of it as "one time" insurance to avoid dumping a batch that would otherwise turn out to be over-mineralized.

Finally (well, 'finally' for this reply): For those who like to "exBEERiment", take a look at https://beerandbrewing.com/learning-lab-water-treatment-for-all/.
 
That appears to be an all malt no boil recipe. I don't think you are going to get there with that kind of kit. It is kind of like comparing to mixing package of dried soup mix to actually making a soup out of fresh ingredients.

Look for a kit with steeping grains, fresh extract and instructions that include a boil with timed hop additions.
 
... if you haven’t yet fallen asleep any suggestions/ideas would be most welcome, thank you.

This topic https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...m-with-extract-neipa-brewed-with-s-04.663200/ may offer some inspiration for additional troubleshooting. There are a couple of posters in that topic who claim to have made good beer using hopped extract - they may also be a good source for troubleshooting.

With regard to ingredients, I came across a couple of utube videos that brewed that kit. In those videos, the yeast package was labeled "American Ale Yeast" - so this additional information would reinforce the idea of fermenting at a lower temperature. Did you happen to notice if there was any "packaged on" dates on any of the packages?
 
Look for a kit with steeping grains, fresh extract and instructions that include a boil with timed hop additions.

Apologies, in advance, for perhaps re-awakening an almost dormant topic. This one was surpisingly one-sided (in terms of poster counts) towards "kits are the problem".

https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/ed9agm/from_extract_to_biab_anything_i_should_not_do/ offers some reasons as to why one might want to stay with the current ingredients (other than water); and focus on other key factors (water quality, fermentation temperature, sanitation, ...).
 
Apologies, in advance, for perhaps re-awakening an almost dormant topic. This one was surpisingly one-sided (in terms of poster counts) towards "kits are the problem".

https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/ed9agm/from_extract_to_biab_anything_i_should_not_do/ offers some reasons as to why one might want to stay with the current ingredients (other than water); and focus on other key factors (water quality, fermentation temperature, sanitation, ...).

I agree with water quality, fermentation temperature, sanitation etc. These things should be done regardless of the type of brewing being done.

But to me a no boil kit or pre-hopped kit is never going to be as good as a quality extract kit. Or better yet a good extract recipe with fresh ingredients.

I believe you can make a very good or even award winning extract beer. As good as or better than most all grain batches.. But the more that is taken out of the brewer's hands the more it is like opening a can of soup and comparing it to a soup with fresh ingredients.
 
I agree with water quality, fermentation temperature, sanitation etc. These things should be done regardless of the type of brewing being done.

Thank you. We're in the beginners brewing forum, so focusing on the basics seems like a good thing to do.

But the more that is taken out of the brewer's hands the more it is like [... some analogy that I won't argue against ...].

This continues to be a reasonable, and perhaps commonly repeated, observation. And if brewing with certain types of ingredients is an "either this or that" discussion, there's not much else to discuss.

There is also the option of "both this and that": pick the base malt (all-grain or dry malt extract) that works well for the beer that one is trying to make.
 
Last edited:
Agree with @bucketnative that you need to give us more information.

BTW, I've had others' extract brews which have been excellent, so there's nothing endemic in extract that HAS to be bad. Instead, I suspect that the tendency of extract brews to have "that flavor" is more related to brewers' inexperience or errors, and not extract per se.

Here are several things you might work to improve (if you are not already doing them):

1. How's your water? My son used to brew extracts; when he switched to using RO (reverse osmosis) water, his beers took a leap forward. Your local water may or may not be a culprit here. For instance, is the water chlorinated and are you doing anything to offset that, if so?

2. Do you control fermentation temperature? Most brewers would probably tell you fermentation temp control was a huge leap forward for them. That is, with most ales you want temps during fermentation in the 60s. Yeast is exothermic, meaning it produces heat while it ferments the beer, and that can raise the temp of the beer 5 to 10 degrees above ambient temp. You can't go by what your room temp is, in other words.

There are ways around this. You can use a ferm chamber (typically a refrigerator or chest freezer), even a swamp cooler to keep temps down. As most yeast rises in temps it starts to throw off off-flavors you don't want in your beer. There are a few exceptions to this (farmhouse or saisons, for instance), but mostly you want to control your fermentation temps.

There also is a style of yeast called Kveik ("Kwike") that isn't that sensitive to fermentation temps, producing good beer even up into the 90s. It's a liquid yeast, not the powdered yeast you're likely using.

3. How do you bottle? The enemy of beer after fermentation is oxidation, and this is especially the case with IPAs; the oxidation attacks hop aroma and flavor, muting it in a relatively short period of time. Are you doing anything that can limit oxidation?

4. Is your equipment CLEAN and sanitized? Unlikely at this early point in your brewing career that you'd have an infection, but it's possible.

*********

I'm a big believer in continuous quality improvement. That is, every time you brew, try to do something better. Over time, you'll approach that perfection you seek, never reaching it, but getting near.

Along those lines, I'd suggest brewing the same kit or style 2 or 3 times, trying to dial it in. If you change the kit or recipe every time, how can you tell if the problems are due to recipe or something else? You can't. I'd focus, if I were you, on dialing in a recipe, and only then branching out to other styles or recipes. The trick is to think about where you want to be in brewing six months from now.

I know that's hard. Lots to learn about in brewing, all this weird vocabulary (strike water, sparge, tun, pitch, mash, etc. etc.), and while it's not rocket science, it's not simplistic, either. It takes time to learn.

Of all the things brewers struggle to learn, the biggest one is....patience.

It seems to me the culprit could well be water.
I am still not clear what bottled water is best and the difference;
Distilled
Mineral
Spring?

The other issue could be high fermentation temps but I have always followed guidelines.
If brewing at 22c and the stick on thermometer and insulated probe on vessel reads same, how accurate is this in terms of actual liquid temp and not ambient?
 
Sorry, I didn't give you anything "action-able" in my previous reply.

Are you buying your kits from a local home brew store or online? If local, consider bringing along a sample bottle (if permitted by local laws) and ask them for advice.

Is there a local homebrewing community (clubs, online groups, ...) that would have a good understanding of your water quality?

At the risk of repeating what others have said... I will suggest two changes.

1. Ferment no higher than 20c.

2. Use distilled water or RO (reverse osmosis) water. Spring water that is low in dissolved minerals will so work.

when you refer to no higher than 20c, are you referring to ambient or liquid temperature?
thanks
 
It seems to me the culprit could well be water.
I am still not clear what bottled water is best and the difference;
Distilled
Mineral
Spring?

Distilled is what you want, because you know what's in there. With mineral or spring water, they'll have some dissolved solids in there but you don't know what. With Distilled you can build up your water to whatever you want. For the most part, though, if you're using an extract kit, distilled will be a good place to start. A lot of the issue with water comes during the mash as they're extracting sugars from the grains; that's already been done for you, so the key is to use water in your process that brings in nothing you don't want, like chlorine.

The other issue could be high fermentation temps but I have always followed guidelines.
If brewing at 22c and the stick on thermometer and insulated probe on vessel reads same, how accurate is this in terms of actual liquid temp and not ambient?

If you have a good way of isolating a temp probe from ambient conditions, then it's likely accurate. I still wouldn't be doing an ale at 22C, I'd be more down at about 18C.

One more thing about kits: whomever put that kit together had to make some decisions, compromises, whatever. That's especially the case with pre-hopped extract, they've decided IBUs and flavors and such. You may or may not like the decisions they've made. More likely you'll react something like "Well, it's OK, but it's nothing special." You might be thinking you're doing something wrong such that the beer turned out the way it did, but no--it just is what it is.

My local homebrew store owner puts together extract kits and sells them. They're much better generally because he's good at it, he's using fresh ingredients, and he's not using pre-hopped extract, he's including actual hop packets. So there's nothing in a kit that has to be bad, provided the kit assembler knows what he/she is doing.

As you move forward, you'll want more control over what you produce. That's a huge part of the joy of brewing for most people, i.e., they make what they like. Once you get the process down, you can start making alterations to recipes and processes, and you'll find you get closer and closer to what you want.
 
First, I'd not be using tap water. If you're on a city system you can be sure it's got chlorine / chloramines in it. This will leave bad flavors in your beer. Took me a while to figure this out.

Since you're doing a Young's kit I'll assume you are in England, Australia, New Zealand. Kits seem a lot more common in these countries and get very good reviews for the most part. One thing seems common with what is called "the homebrew twang", time seems to be the best cure for it.

Simple experiment, if you can find a two can kit, like a Woodforde's Wherry or similar you can make one batch with each can. In one use RO water, in the other use your tap water but keep the temp lower and see which one helps the most. I bet water.

All the Best,
D. White
 

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