I'm about to give up.

[dmtaylor]

I'm beginning to wonder whether perhaps over-oxidation is the real way to increase banana. I mean like through either oxidized extract, or hot side aeration. Some of the best hefeweizens I have tasted, including my own and from friends, have been from extract. I wonder if all-grain brewers can increase banana by beating the hell out of their hot wort. Maybe one day I'll run a side by side experiment. If anyone else gets to it before I do, please post your results.

 

[bracconiere]

oh, i should add it was a 10 gallon batch and, i only had 17lbs of malt so had to add 3.75lbs of table sugar to it too....

i have read warm ferments and table sugar create fruity flavors.....seems that way! but the clasique yeast, more a round not sharp fruit tone...like bannana....

 

[Velnerj]

I just brewed a rogenbier, which is basically a heffe but with rye instead of wheat. My recipe was about 55/45 rye to barley. The end result was a beer that had quite a combination of banana and cloves, banana getting the slight edge in prominence.

I used mangrove Jack's Bavarian wheat dry yeast. No chill. And fermented in my boil kettle with a temp probe stuck inside between the pot and the lid (open fermentation?) I fermented at 21c for 5 days and raised it to 23c and packaged (keg open transfer) on day 10. Tapped the keg at around day 14.

I'm only mentioning it because all prior attempts to generate this flavor profile have alluded me (though not as exhaustive as OP). But I feel I've hit my jackpot so I'd thought I'd share in case anyone else can learn from my experience.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I just brewed a rogenbier, which is basically a heffe but with rye instead of wheat. My recipe was about 55/45 rye to barley. The end result was a beer that had quite a combination of banana and cloves, banana getting the slight edge in prominence.

I used mangrove Jack's Bavarian wheat dry yeast. No chill. And fermented in my boil kettle with a temp probe stuck inside between the pot and the lid (open fermentation?) I fermented at 21c for 5 days and raised it to 23c and packaged (keg open transfer) on day 10. Tapped the keg at around day 14.

I'm only mentioning it because all prior attempts to generate this flavor profile have alluded me (though not as exhaustive as OP). But I feel I've hit my jackpot so I'd thought I'd share in case anyone else can learn from my experience.

I'll give this a try, I used to buy Roggenbier in Germany, and really enjoyed it.
I brewed another attempt a while back, mostly wheat in the grain bill, then fermented it with Omega's Bananza strain, which supposedly produces only esters without phenolics. The resulting beer turned out under-attenuated and only has a mild banana character. IBUs were too low to balance out the residual sweetness so I ended up with a flabby disappointment.

It's been on tap for a few months, I'll pull a glass every now and then just to check if some aging might improve it. No such luck.

 

[Velnerj]

I'll give this a try, I used to buy Roggenbier in Germany, and really enjoyed it.
I brewed another attempt a while back, mostly wheat in the grain bill, then fermented it with Omega's Bananza strain, which supposedly produces only esters without phenolics. The resulting beer turned out under-attenuated and only has a mild banana character. IBUs were too low to balance out the residual sweetness so I ended up with a flabby disappointment.

It's been on tap for a few months, I'll pull a glass every now and then just to check if some aging might improve it. No such luck.

I suspected my beer had under attenuated as well. The OG was 1.057 and the fg was stuck on 1.017 but apparently that was in the range of expected attenuation for this yeast (70-75%). There's definitely residual sweetness but not cloying so.

 

[Saunassa]

I'll give this a try, I used to buy Roggenbier in Germany, and really enjoyed it.
I brewed another attempt a while back, mostly wheat in the grain bill, then fermented it with Omega's Bananza strain, which supposedly produces only esters without phenolics. The resulting beer turned out under-attenuated and only has a mild banana character. IBUs were too low to balance out the residual sweetness so I ended up with a flabby disappointment.

It's been on tap for a few months, I'll pull a glass every now and then just to check if some aging might improve it. No such luck.

Not sure if I asked this earlier. Sounds like you only keg this. Have you tried bottling a six pack when you transfer to the keg? I tend to get much more banana and clove when bottle conditioned vs force carb in the keg. Perhaps I need to prime in the keg, flush with CO2 and store in basement for a few weeks?

 

[Rfox2014]

Thank you!

A few years later I’m on the quest for my best hefe brew. Has your banana quest been completed?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I watch a talk by a guy from Escarpment he said adding glucose will provide the precursors for the banana which doesn’t fit with the German purity law, but… I haven’t tried it yet.

 

[Jayjay1976]

A few years later I’m on the quest for my best hefe brew. Has your banana quest been completed?

I've temporarily abandoned the main quest in order to explore some dungeons, I'll get back to it eventually.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I watch a talk by a guy from Escarpment he said adding glucose will provide the precursors for the banana which doesn’t fit with the German purity law, but… I haven’t tried it yet.

Glucose you say?
Hell, I ain't above it!

 

[Miraculix]

Glucose you say?
Hell, I ain't above it!

There's the Hermann Verfahren which favours glucose production in the mash. You basically do a 62c step, afterwards remove 20-30% of the Wort, do a 72c step with the remaining mash, chill it back to 62 and then add the removed part of the wort again.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've temporarily abandoned the main quest in order to explore some dungeons, I'll get back to it eventually.

You sound like me and my brothers.

 

[SFC Rudy]

I also tried to brew a Hefeweizen, using all the tricks, like what I drank while was stationed in Germany. I finally figured it out, took some to my old drinking buddy from Germany and he said "Now THAT's the taste I've been missing."

The two things that got me there are Lallemand Munich Classic dry yeast and open fermentation. I had found a post on here, and I can't find it again, about open fermentation and using a storage container as an open fermenter. The thought being that the shallower the fermenting beer the less aroma that is released with the CO2, where with a deeper fermenter more aroma was released with the turbulence of the CO2 coming from the bottom of the fermenter. When you smell the banana from the fermenter, that is aroma that that will not be in your final beer. Am I making sense?

Anyway, I use a 15 gallon sterilite container from Walmart and a blichman cooling coil for temp control with my gerry rigged "glycol" chiller.

My recipe:
55% Wheat
40% Pils
5% Carapils

Mash @152F
Boil 60 minutes with 1 oz tettnang or hallertau per 5 gallons

Ferment @68F with one pack Lallemand Munich Classic dry yeast
I package at around 10 days, after the krausen falls.

Bottle to 3 volume CO2. When you pour ensure you stir up the yeast and get it into the beer, there's a lot of flavor in it. That's how the Germans drink it.

Don't keg it, the yeast will settle and it will turn into a Krystalweizen. You want the yeast in the beer.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Glucose you say?
Hell, I ain't above it!

If I can find the webcast I’ll share it.