Bell's Kalamazoo Stout

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craigd

craigd

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I just had one of these over the weekend and thought it was a great basic stout. We did a mini stout tasting and I thought this was one of the more drinkable and balanced stouts we tried. Any thoughts on a recipe? I'm not really into cloning but would be curious to know what makes this one "work" so well.
 
I honestly think they adjust their water with salts for that one. Just a guess, but to me it seemed to have an almost salty quality...very subtle. It has been a long time since I've had it though. It seemed fairly steep on the dark roastiness.
 
motobrewer said:
I thought only the kalamazoo stout had licorice?
Click to expand...

What? That is what this thread is about, isn't it?

I'm pretty sure the Expedition Stout has licorice as well. There's no documentation of it, but it sure tastes that way to me.
 
haha, well i'm really confused then.

ignore my advice. anyway, i'm still interested in a clone! :)
 
I'm a big fan of the K-zoo stout. I copied down this recipe from another board a year or two back. The poster claimed to know an old brewer at Bell's, but I can't verify that. I also haven't tried it yet, but it looks to be about right, based off my "research" of drinking many Bell's stouts.:rockin:

5 Gallon batch
OG = 1.067
SRM = 53
IBU = 51

Grist:
9 lbs Pale Malt
3.5 lbs Flaked Barley
2.5 lbs Roasted Barley
1 lb Munich (light, i.e. around 10 SRM)
1lb Special B
1/3 lb Black Malt
1/2 piece Licorice stick

Hops:
1/2 oz Nugget (13%) @ 60min
1 oz Fuggle (4.75%) @ 60min

Yes, that's a ton of dark grains, but the posted said he was very confident in the grainbill. Poster didn't give mash temps, but I would imagine aiming for around 154 would be prudent. You can add the licorice whenever, but I'd give it at least 10-15 minutes do dissolve and integrate. Longer probably won't harm anything. Use Bell's yeast if you have it, otherwise a 1272 or 1056/US-05 ought to work. I like to ferment stouts cooler than my other beers, but that could be me. Hope it works!
 
I plugged this recipe into BeerSmith and something isn't matching up. BS says that the IBU=29.9 vs. the 51 stated and the color=61.1 vs. the 53 stated.

To get the color and IBU closer I raised the fuggles to 1.5oz.; the nugget to 1 oz.; lowered the black malt to 4 oz.; lowered the special B to 1lb.; and lowered the roasted barley to 2lbs.. That equates to a IBU of 51.6 and Color of 54.1

The only thing I don't have in the recipe, because it's not in BeerSmith is the licorice. Does anybody know what it is rated for color/IBU if anything?
 
I'm a little hesitant about this recipe, Kalamazoo is a fairly smooth stout and that is a lot of roast. I'm not implying the OP is wrong, I'd be curious to hear from anyone that makes this recipe.
 
Yeah, I just plugged in into Beersmith, and I got much the same in terms of numbers. The Special B is only 1lb in what I copied down.

After playing with it a bit, I definitely would up the hops and tone down the malts a bit. Even at a 5.5 gallon batch, I'm getting a big OG at 1.073, which is clearly too high. Hey, like I said guys, I can't vouch for this, as I never did get around to making it. This is some other guy's recipe I copied on a scrap piece of paper at my desk.:(

Bell's doesn't offer much concrete on its website. They tell you the OG is 1063 and the finished beer is 6%. That's all. If the original recipe is at all on track, here's a guess at what might work better, with most of the numbers fairly well on target. Who's gonna take one for the team and try it? Or, improve on it, rather?

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Beer
Brewer: Me
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Stout
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 41.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 50.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.38 %
2 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 15.09 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.55 %
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 7.55 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 7.55 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.89 %
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 42.7 IBU
2.50 oz Anise, Star (Boil 30.0 min) Misc


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 13.25 lb
----------------------------
ERROR - All Grain/Partial Mash recipe contains no mash steps

Notes:
------
Star Anise is actually brewer's licorice!
 
I too did some messing around in BS and here is what I came up with.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.82 gal
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 39.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 54.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 54.55 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 25.45 %
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
12.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.45 %
12.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5.45 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 40.4 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.0 IBU
2.50 oz Anise, Star (Boil 30.0 min) Misc
5.00 gal Milwaukee, WI Water
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.19 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 9.63 qt of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F


The color, IBU, and OG all fall within category parameters, but would it taste like it? I've never tried the Kzoo Stout yet, so I'll have to do that before I would try making it.
 
pinkfloyd4ever said:
Anise is NOT the same thing
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, we know, but the software we're using doesn't have an entry for brewer's licorice, and neither of us has the time to make one, I'm guessing. Hence the note in my recipe. We wanted to put something in the ingredient list to represent the licorice.
 
GuldTuborg said:
Yes, yes, we know, but the software we're using doesn't have an entry for brewer's licorice, and neither of us has the time to make one, I'm guessing. Hence the note in my recipe. We wanted to put something in the ingredient list to represent the licorice.
Click to expand...

ahhh, I see. Fair enough
 
Anyone brewed any of these yet to hazard a guess on accuracy? I know its tough from wort...but I'm curious.
 
would love to hear some tasting notes on this as well!
 
pmeice86 said:
I'm making this one today, using the original recipe. I might add more hops if I get more mash efficiency than I expect to balance the higher alcohol content. Here's what I'm planning right now:
http://hopville.com/recipe/490161/american-stout-recipes/kalamazoo-stout-clone

Wish me luck!
Click to expand...

Yikes. That's one hell of a high OG and a hell of a lot of roasted barley. Bell's says on their website that the OG is 1.063. Your IBUs are pretty low too. I'd go with something closer to the second recipe Guld posted, or Waunabeer's.

I've got a version of this in the fermenter now and I used this:

Kinda screwed up & forgot a couple of important things, such as plugging the unused fly sparge hole on the top of my mash tun and taking an OG reading. IDIOT!!! :mad: :(

9 lb 4 oz 2-Row Pale (63%)
2 lb Flaked Barley (14%)
1 lb Roasted Barley (7%)
1 lb Munich 10L (7%)
1 lb Special B (7%)
5.33 oz Black (Patent) Malt (2%)

Mash at 154 F

60min 1oz Fuggles
60min 1oz Nugget
20min 1/2 stick brewer's licorice

I used Bell's yeast cultured from their Pale Ale. I'll let you know how it turns out in 3 or 4 weeks. Ughhh I hate bottling. I need money & space for kegging..badly
 
Yeah, that would be a lot of roasted grains for even a RIS let alone something that much less mAlty. That one is going to need a lot of aging to smooth out.

Btw, does anyone really know whAt yeast bells uses?
 
They have a proprietary house ale strain that is used in all of their ales except the Winter White. It's best to harvest it from something lowish in alcohol like the Pale Ale, Amber, Best Brown, Porter, Oberon, or Oarsman, and of course you want it as fresh as possible (I always look up the batch number on their website before buying when I'm going to be harvesting yeast.)
 
I would think the oarsmen would use something else. Does anyone know what it's similar to? Hopslam is so malty compared to there other beers. I guess it just show the verstity of the yeast.
 
I added 1 oz. 7.8% AA Amarillo because that's the best choice I had... That gets me up to 47 IBU. Just have to wait and see how it goes at this point!
 
boostsr20 said:
I would think the oarsmen would use something else. Does anyone know what it's similar to? Hopslam is so malty compared to there other beers. I guess it just show the verstity of the yeast.
Click to expand...

nope, same one. From their website:

Designed as a flavorful session beer, Oarsman Ale uses a classic German brewing technique to impart a light, refreshing tartness. Oarsman Ale grew out of a desire to explore the tradition of session beers, trading intensity for finesse while still creating a worthwhile experience for the taster. The grain bill includes a healthy portion of wheat, while light hopping lend citrus & herbal notes to the aroma. Fermented with Bell’s house ale yeast, Oarsman comes in at 4.0% alcohol by volume. Rather than being the dominant flavor note, the tartness in Oarsman takes on more of a palate-cleansing role, making it perfect with meals or purely on its own.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what White Labs or Wyeast strain it's closest to, but you're in Michigan. Why not just harvest some of their house yeast? You don't need a stir plate
 
I have a stir plate so it's not a big deal to capture their yeast. Just not a big fan of their lower gravity ales. I will end up using some best brown though.
 
I used this recipe about 6 weeks ago http://hopville.com/recipe/490161/american-stout-recipes/kalamazoo-stout-attempt. The only change from the original recipe was the addition of an ounce of Amarillo hops (because I agreed the IBUs would be too low, and that was the best choice I had on brew day). The beer turned out well. The roasted character is not overpowering, and it has a very creamy mouth feel. I grabbed a bottle of the real Kalamazoo Stout and I must say it's pretty close. No one who has come by the kegerator has stopped after one glass so far.
 
I know this thread is old but here goes. I used a brewers best milk stout kit i picked up at the bells general store. I also baught a stick of brewers licorice. I put 1/2 stick of licorice in the boil at 30 min. anything less and it would not have dissolved all the way. O.G was 1.061 Primary for 7 days. Secondary for 5 days then bottled. F.G. was 1.019 Taste is very close to Kazoo stout in my opinion. I will brew this one again for sure.
 
pmeice86 said:
I used this recipe about 6 weeks ago http://hopville.com/recipe/490161/american-stout-recipes/kalamazoo-stout-attempt. The only change from the original recipe was the addition of an ounce of Amarillo hops (because I agreed the IBUs would be too low, and that was the best choice I had on brew day). The beer turned out well. The roasted character is not overpowering, and it has a very creamy mouth feel. I grabbed a bottle of the real Kalamazoo Stout and I must say it's pretty close. No one who has come by the kegerator has stopped after one glass so far.
Click to expand...

Donzi79 said:
Just had a Kzoo Stout for the first time last night......did any of these recipes turn out?
Click to expand...

See above.
 
pinkfloyd4ever said:
Yikes. That's one hell of a high OG and a hell of a lot of roasted barley. Bell's says on their website that the OG is 1.063. Your IBUs are pretty low too. I'd go with something closer to the second recipe Guld posted, or Waunabeer's.

I've got a version of this in the fermenter now and I used this:

Kinda screwed up & forgot a couple of important things, such as plugging the unused fly sparge hole on the top of my mash tun and taking an OG reading. IDIOT!!! :mad: :(

9 lb 4 oz 2-Row Pale (63%)
2 lb Flaked Barley (14%)
1 lb Roasted Barley (7%)
1 lb Munich 10L (7%)
1 lb Special B (7%)
5.33 oz Black (Patent) Malt (2%)

Mash at 154 F

60min 1oz Fuggles
60min 1oz Nugget
20min 1/2 stick brewer's licorice

I used Bell's yeast cultured from their Pale Ale. I'll let you know how it turns out in 3 or 4 weeks. Ughhh I hate bottling. I need money & space for kegging..badly
Click to expand...

How was this? Close?
 
pmeice86 said:
I used this recipe about 6 weeks ago http://hopville.com/recipe/490161/american-stout-recipes/kalamazoo-stout-attempt. The only change from the original recipe was the addition of an ounce of Amarillo hops (because I agreed the IBUs would be too low, and that was the best choice I had on brew day). The beer turned out well. The roasted character is not overpowering, and it has a very creamy mouth feel. I grabbed a bottle of the real Kalamazoo Stout and I must say it's pretty close. No one who has come by the kegerator has stopped after one glass so far.
Click to expand...
The link expired, do u still have the recipe? Tia.
 
Love Kalamazoo stout and am bummed that link is broken!

I'm brewing something close to @GuldTuborg 's version tonight though and will update this thread once I know how it turns out. I modified the grain amounts for my set up to be closer to the specs Bell's lists on their website. I also had to make a few substitutions based on what my LHBS had in stock, but the recipe is pretty much the same. Here's the version I'm working with:

Grain
7.5lbs 2-row
2lbs flaked barley
1lb munich light
1lb roasted barley
.75lb simpson's double roasted crystal (sub for special b)
.25lb black patent

Hops
1oz nugget @60
.5oz fuggles @60

.5oz licorice root @30 (sub for brewer's licorice)

Yeast: US-05

Brewgr predicts...
OG: 1.069
IBU: 50
SRM: 35
 

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