eBrewery Troubleshooting

[stlbeer]

**Warning - this is lengthy and I'm asking for troubleshooting assistance on an ebrewery control panel. Proceed at your own risk! **

Hi guys,

I have a problem with my control panel that I don't understand and I need a bit of assistance. Plus I'm hoping to brew on Wednesday.

First a description of the setup. I'm using 240v 50a 4 wire (2 hot, 1 neu, 1 gnd) GFCI service (spa panel from my main which has 50a breaker). HLT has a 240v 4500w element with Auber PID. RIMS has a 240v 2000w element with Auber PID and Boil Kettle is like the HLT with a 240v 4500w element with Auber PID.

Element power flows
inlet plug -> distribution lug -> breaker -> hot 1 -> contactor -> outlet
inlet plub -> distribution lug -> breaker -> hot 2 -> SSR -> contactor -> outlet

I have 120v service from one of hot lets. It supplies power to PIDS, lights, switches, contactor coils, etc.

This setup last worked flawlessly about 8 weeks ago. When I brewed on it last week, I noticed the RIMS pilot light did not light up when I closed the contactor and the PID was calling for heat. I checked the voltage on hot 1 and it was 122.6 volts all the way from power inlet to outlet.

Then I checked hot 2 the same way. I measured 122.6 volts from power inlet to SSR in, then on the SSR out it was about 60 volts. The element was plugged in, the PID was calling for heat and the contactor was closed. The pilot light was not lit. I measured the 60 volts all the way to the outlet for hot 2.

I figured it was a bad SSR so I replaced it with a known working SSR (tested it just to make sure before installing it on a drill with a different PID.

Same results. SO I thought it was the contactor since I was getting intermittent results and I got a different contactor. Installed it today and I thought the problem would be resolved. Without the element plugged in, I powered up the panel and closed the contactor for the RIMS element. The pilot light came on (from the leakage from the SSR I figured). Set the PID to call for heat (set the temp to 100*F) and the OUT lit on the PID. I measured 122.6 volts on hot 1 and hot 2 all the way from the power inlet to the power outlet. So I plugged in the element - it was setting in a bucket of water - and the pilot light went out. It didn't heat up.

I measured the voltage again. Hot 1 is fine - 122.6 volts. Hot 2 is back to 60 volts. What's going on?

I checked all of the connections and they are tight. I disconnected the light and checked it against a known good 220v service - the light is good.

About the only thing I haven't checked is the control voltage from the PID. Could that be the problem? That it's only partially closing the SSR? I haven't heard of that.

The PID is an Auber SWA2451. The specifications list 12VDC 50 mA.

Any help you can offer I'd gladly take.

I'm going to to measure the PID control circuit voltage.

Update - the voltage on the RIMS PID SSR out pins is 8.8vdc. On the PID (also a SWA2451) for the BK it's 8.6v. It's supposed to be 12v, but it's working just fine.

The control voltage for the SSR is 4-42v. The 8.8 volts should be plenty.

Again - any ideas are appreciated.

Schematic - the only differences from this to my panel is I'm using 4500w 240v elements instead of 5500w 240v elements. I have 50A 240 coming into my panel and I'm using Auber SWA2451 PIDs for the RIMS and HLT instead of the Auber SYL2352's.

 

[jCOSbrew]

Is it possible you dry fired and killed the heating element in the rims?

10-12vDC output from PID should be easy to measure.

 

[stlbeer]

Is it possible you dry fired and killed the heating element in the rims?

10-12vDC output from PID should be easy to measure.

I have a backup element - will let you know.

I also have a backup PID. That will be the last component I'll have to replace.

 

[stlbeer]

The element - it's a resistorized 240v 2000w Incoloy (stainless steel) element. http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/cPath/581_602_603/products_id/7052

I measured the resistance at 30.0 Ohms. Does this seem right? I did not measure resistance before using it. Have used it successfully for over 20 brews.

 

[danb35]

30 ohms seems right, assuming the resistance stays the same as it heats up. Following Ohm's law, 240 volts / 30 ohms = 8 amps, and 240 volts * 8 amps = 1920 watts--close enough to 2000.

 

[stlbeer]

Problem solved! Thanks to those who replied.


The issue was I did not have the RIMS pump on. There is a safety interlock so the SSR control signal will not be sent to the SSR unless the RIMS pump switch is on - and it wasn't.

I caused this problem when I plugged in a new pump on a different switched outlet and didn't realize what I had done. I had my dad and 3 brothers trying to help me troubleshoot this while still trying to brew. No wonder I couldn't figure it out.

In other words, never mind.

Paul

 

[Navy_Chief]

Look at it this way, you know that the safety you created to prevent dry fires by wiring it that way is working correctly...

 

[stlbeer]

Yep - and I'm sure I won't forget it as easily this time around.

The real solution is to brew more so I'm always of aware of how it works...