I got a new immersion chiller and I'm wondering what to expect

[urg8rb8]

I will be doing my first brew (DIPA) with a chiller and I am wondering if it will change the flavor of my product as compared to not chilling. For example, if I don't chill the wort down fast enough, all the late hop additions (5, 10mins) probably turn into bittering hops. However, if I chill the wort down as fast as I could, I'm assuming that the late addition hops will be contributing more towards flavor/aroma as they are intended to do. Is this the correct understanding? I've also been reading a bit on hop isomerization temperature (~170F). Is this the threshold of where hops in higher temp contribute bitterness and hops in lower temp contribute flavor/ aroma?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes and yes.

Make sure the hoses are tight before turning on the water.

 

[Blazinlow86]

your correct. the chilling times can make a big differance in late hopped beers. but it also depends on your recipe. whats your hop schedule look like?

 

[urg8rb8]

Yes and yes.

Make sure the hoses are tight before turning on the water.

Sounds like someone is speaking from experience. lol

 

[urg8rb8]

your correct. the chilling times can make a big differance in late hopped beers. but it also depends on your recipe. whats your hop schedule look like?

This is what it looks like:

1 oz Nugget [13.0%] - Boil 60 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 30 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min

1.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 12 days
0.5 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 12 days 0.7 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 9 days
0.9 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 6 days
1.1 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 3 days



I figure if I did the above without chilling, those 15, 10, and 5 min hops will pretty much be 30 min additions. And the 30 min addition will be a 60 min addition.

 

[Blazinlow86]

This is what it looks like:

1 oz Nugget [13.0%] - Boil 60 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 30 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.88 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min

1.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 12 days
0.5 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 12 days 0.7 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 9 days
0.9 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 6 days
1.1 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 3 days



I figure if I did the above without chilling, those 15, 10, and 5 min hops will pretty much be 30 min additions. And the 30 min addition will be a 60 min addition.

sorry forgot batch size and og/ibu target? ideally you would do a test run on how long it takes to cool to 170. if its 5 mins from flamout i would delay all the additions 5 minutes. cheers

 

[Jtk78]

I believe you said this was your first batch. Can I ask how you came to this hop schedule? I think it seems too complicated. If it were me, which I know it's not, I would do something closer to this (I quoted your text to prevent typing it out, but changed things around. I didn't keep your exact hop weights, but overall total hops is pretty close to what you had).

1 oz Nugget [13.0%] - Boil 60 min
3.5oz [12.0%] - Boil 5 to 0 mins (flameout)

2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 12 days
1 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 12 days

1 oz Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 3 days
2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Dry Hop 3 days

I will dry hop, but I wouldn't want to open the carboy 4 times to do so.

Also, once the above beer is done, I think it would be easier to tweak this hop schedule (edit - in future batches).

Keep in mind this is just one person's suggestion.

 

[kh54s10]

I would have to say that with all those dry hops you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in chilling times.

I too would simplify the hop additions. I usually to a 60 minute and one or maybe two late additions, often at 10 minutes and flame out. I would do one dry hop maybe two. If two I would do 10 and 5 days. Maybe even 7 and 4 days.

You have the chiller. What is your worry about getting too bitter? Just chill as quickly as you can. There are tons of people who do no chill brewing. I assume they alter their hop schedule, but even at 24 hours to chill I don't think they get a bitter bomb.

 

[mongoose33]

I believe you said this was your first batch. Can I ask how you came to this hop schedule? I think it seems too complicated. If it were me, which I know it's not, I would do something closer to this (I quoted your text to prevent typing it out, but changed things around. I didn't keep your exact hop weights, but overall total hops is pretty close to what you had).



I will dry hop, but I wouldn't want to open the carboy 4 times to do so.

Also, once the above beer is done, I think it would be easier to tweak this hop schedule.

Keep in mind this is just one person's suggestion.

I think it's his first batch with the new chiller.

I agree, though, it's an awfully complicated hop schedule. I can't, personally, see the point of the 30, 15, and even 10-minute additions. If going for bitterness, then make them initial bittering additions. If going for flavor and aroma, then add them late.

I also get a kick out of hop schedules that are down to the .1 ounce of weights. Why? Must be some sort of program that's giving these hop weights.

If it were me--and it's not, and OP can do whatever makes him/her happy--I'd simplify the hop additions like so:

1 oz Nugget [13.0%] - Boil 60 min
3 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
.
2 oz Amarillo Gold 6 days
3 oz Citra 6 days

That's it!

Now, again, OP can do whatever makes them happy, but I don't think I'd be opening up that fermenter any more than I'd have to. Oxidation is the enemy of hop aroma/flavor. Less is good.

 

[mulletmaster]

Also stirring the wort and moving the chiller will improve cooling (reduce overall time). If the water out line gets cold agitate wort.

Keep a screwdriver handy for hose clamps, mine leaked at high temp after tubing got hot.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Fwiw, I have a 50 foot chiller that I got fairly cheap on Amazon. With about 6 gallons, it got down to 170 in about a minute, maybe less. So getting to that temperature is quick.

 

[urg8rb8]

sorry forgot batch size and og/ibu target? ideally you would do a test run on how long it takes to cool to 170. if its 5 mins from flamout i would delay all the additions 5 minutes. cheers

6 gallons and like 85 IBU

 

[urg8rb8]

I believe you said this was your first batch. Can I ask how you came to this hop schedule? I think it seems too complicated. If it were me, which I know it's not, I would do something closer to this (I quoted your text to prevent typing it out, but changed things around. I didn't keep your exact hop weights, but overall total hops is pretty close to what you had).



I will dry hop, but I wouldn't want to open the carboy 4 times to do so.

Also, once the above beer is done, I think it would be easier to tweak this hop schedule (edit - in future batches).

Keep in mind this is just one person's suggestion.

It will be my first batch with a wort chiller. This recipe was given on a Jamel Show podcast, which he scaled down from huge barrel recipe.

 

[Blazinlow86]

6 gallons and like 85 IBU

these are the ibu estimates beersmith 3 predicts with your hop schedule/amounts for a 6 gallon batch of 1.090wort (i guessed as you forgot to menton yours) based on how long it takes to go from flame out to 170f

0 mins = 82.3ibu
2 mins = 87.3ibu
10 mins = 99.7ibu
15 mins = 103ibu
20 mins =106ibu

hopefully that helps you out. as you move more hops later into the boil the numbers go up alot more. for example if we moved all your boil hops to 5 minutes the ibu prediction is

0 mins =37ibu
10 mins =59ibu
20 mins =71ibu

cheers

 

[urg8rb8]

these are the ibu estimates beersmith 3 predicts with your hop schedule/amounts for a 6 gallon batch of 1.090wort (i guessed as you forgot to menton yours) based on how long it takes to go from flame out to 170f

0 mins = 82.3ibu
2 mins = 87.3ibu
10 mins = 99.7ibu
15 mins = 103ibu
20 mins =106ibu

hopefully that helps you out. as you move more hops later into the boil the numbers go up alot more. for example if we moved all your boil hops to 5 minutes the ibu prediction is

0 mins =37ibu
10 mins =59ibu
20 mins =71ibu

cheers

Yes this makes sense! Btw my OG 1.070.

Now it makes me wonder if all these hop schedules for all these recipes considers about 5-10 min cool down time to 170F.

 

[Blazinlow86]

That's the tricky part. You never really know unless it's specifically stated. Beersmith makes it simple once you have it all setup however. Cheers

 

[urg8rb8]

That's the tricky part. You never really know unless it's specifically stated. Beersmith makes it simple once you have it all setup however. Cheers

Thanks!

 

[EnglishAndy]

Sounds like someone is speaking from experience. lol

And tighten them again after they've gone soft from the hot water running through!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

This thread makes me curious about the actual impact of multiple hop additions (60 + 30 + 20 + 10 + 0) vs just something like (60 + 5). I usually do a 60 min + 20/15 min + flame out. I am also curious about the bitterness of flame out hops. I am pretty sure it is more than the 0 IBU that BeerSmith says, but I am sure it depends on how fast it chills. (Though I really don't put much weight in IBU calcs anyway, so just judge by taste.)

Since we are talking about an immersion chiller, even during the summer when my tap is 70F, my chiller drops the wort down to 120F quickly. That 100F to 65F can take a long time. I have played around with running ice water through the chiller. I now have a second chiller that I will try in a bucket of ice water. My last batch I cooled to 100F, transferred to my fermenter, then let it chill in my fermentation chamber (though I set it to 64F and it overshot to 58F...and it took a few hours).

 

[LittleRiver]

...That 100F to 65F can take a long time. I have played around with running ice water through the chiller...

I use an inexpensive water transfer pump to first recirculate from a bucket of tap water through my immersion chiller, and save the resulting hot water for cleanup. When the wort & water temps equalize I switch to recirculating from a cooler filled with water and a 20lb bag of ice (which I can get for ~$2). The resulting warm water is saved for rinsing during cleanup.

Once I switch to the ice water the wort temp drops pretty fast, and reaching pitching temp is not a problem.

 

[Blazinlow86]

This thread makes me curious about the actual impact of multiple hop additions (60 + 30 + 20 + 10 + 0) vs just something like (60 + 5). I usually do a 60 min + 20/15 min + flame out. I am also curious about the bitterness of flame out hops. I am pretty sure it is more than the 0 IBU that BeerSmith says, but I am sure it depends on how fast it chills. (Though I really don't put much weight in IBU calcs anyway, so just judge by taste.)

Since we are talking about an immersion chiller, even during the summer when my tap is 70F, my chiller drops the wort down to 120F quickly. That 100F to 65F can take a long time. I have played around with running ice water through the chiller. I now have a second chiller that I will try in a bucket of ice water. My last batch I cooled to 100F, transferred to my fermenter, then let it chill in my fermentation chamber (though I set it to 64F and it overshot to 58F...and it took a few hours).

Just a fyi there's a box you need to check in you equipment profile as well as a box to enter your specific systems flamout to 170f chill time in order for it estimate correctly otherwise it's assuming you chill instantly. Everything I brewed prior to figuring this out came out overly bitter. Cheers

 

[urg8rb8]

Just a fyi there's a box you need to check in you equipment profile as well as a box to enter your specific systems flamout to 170f chill time in order for it estimate correctly otherwise it's assuming you chill instantly. Everything I brewed prior to figuring this out came out overly bitter. Cheers

This is also why my IPAs didn't have much hop flavor.

 

[Blazinlow86]

This is also why my IPAs didn't have much hop flavor.

Definitely can as those flavor hops become bittering hops at a certain point. Might not be as noticible on a old school IPA without whirlpool hops but on a neipa for example it can make a huge difference. Cheers

 

[bracconiere]

doesn't cooling faster also produce cold break? preventing chill haze?

 

[Blazinlow86]

doesn't cooling faster also produce cold break? preventing chill haze?

That's what they say. Can't really say for certain as I've never personally compared however. Cheers

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Just a fyi there's a box you need to check in you equipment profile as well as a box to enter your specific systems flamout to 170f chill time in order for it estimate correctly otherwise it's assuming you chill instantly. Everything I brewed prior to figuring this out came out overly bitter. Cheers

Ahhh...I guess it is that "Estimate Boil Hop Carryover to Whirlpool" option...and I guess I would set "Total Whirlpool" time to something like 5 or 10 minutes. I use BS Mobile but most the options seem to be the same.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Ahhh...I guess it is that "Estimate Boil Hop Carryover to Whirlpool" option...and I guess I would set "Total Whirlpool" time to something like 5 or 10 minutes. I use BS Mobile but most the options seem to be the same.

That's the ones. You then need to reselect that equipment on any saved previous recipes for it to recalculate fwiw. Alot of people believe it's all hocus pocus but it immediately made a huge improvement in my beers. Cheers

 

[urg8rb8]

That's the ones. You then need to reselect that equipment on any saved previous recipes for it to recalculate fwiw. Alot of people believe it's all hocus pocus but it immediately made a huge improvement in my beers. Cheers

Dang... I have an old version of BS. It doesn't have this option

 

[Blazinlow86]

Dang... I have an old version of BS. It doesn't have this option

I would imagine you will be able to chill within 5 minutes to 170 so maybe just delay your hops that much to compensate and see how you like it. If you want to upgrade to bs3 the subscription is pretty cheap. Cheers

 

[urg8rb8]

I would imagine you will be able to chill within 5 minutes to 170 so maybe just delay your hops that much to compensate and see how you like it. If you want to upgrade to bs3 the subscription is pretty cheap. Cheers

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind when I brew this DIPA.

 

[urg8rb8]

General question about the immersion chiller. I haven't used it yet but I will as soon as I get a free Saturday. I'm looking at the chiller and how it is coiled up and how the copper is collapsed on itself. Wouldn't it be better if the coil is stretched out to increase surface area? I would think that the parts of the coil that is touching the other parts of the coil isn't touching the hot wort. Would it make a difference if the coil was stretched out so that the entire surface area of the coil is touching the wort?

 

[LittleRiver]

... I would think that the parts of the coil that is touching the other parts of the coil isn't touching the hot wort. Would it make a difference if the coil was stretched out so that the entire surface area of the coil is touching the wort?

That's the idea behind the ribcage chiller, to maximize contact with the wort while minimizing coil to coil contact. Another benefit is that the cooling coils are more widely distributed in the entire volume of wort.

 

[mongoose33]

General question about the immersion chiller. I haven't used it yet but I will as soon as I get a free Saturday. I'm looking at the chiller and how it is coiled up and how the copper is collapsed on itself. Wouldn't it be better if the coil is stretched out to increase surface area? I would think that the parts of the coil that is touching the other parts of the coil isn't touching the hot wort. Would it make a difference if the coil was stretched out so that the entire surface area of the coil is touching the wort?

If the wort can move between the coils it will chill much better. I have/had a couple of coil chillers like that, and I was able to stretch it just a bit to allow space between the coils. I would swish it through the wort to maximize exposure of the wort to the coils.

The keys to fast cooling w/ an immersion chiller are 1) as fast of water movement through the coils as you can get, e.g., I always had the garden hose on full blast, 2) movement of the wort past the coils or the coils past the wort, 3) coldest water possible. You can stir or swish the fermenter in the wort. I found swishing was a little better than stirring.

The temp of the wort will drop fast initially as it goes from boiling down to around 100; then it will slow, because the temp difference between the coils (with water flowing through) and the wort is less. The less differential, the slower it cools, which is why some people will initially cool the wort to around 100 using a normal water source, and then switch to icewater pumped from a cooler to finish the job. This isn't uncommon in places where groundwater temps are in the 80s or higher.

 

[kh54s10]

Just a fyi there's a box you need to check in you equipment profile as well as a box to enter your specific systems flamout to 170f chill time in order for it estimate correctly otherwise it's assuming you chill instantly. Everything I brewed prior to figuring this out came out overly bitter. Cheers

Is that box for the time it takes to chill to 170 or how long you hold the temperature at 170? I assumed it was the latter.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Is that box for the time it takes to chill to 170 or how long you hold the temperature at 170? I assumed it was the latter.

My guess is you probably have to fudge the number based on your chilling process. I suspect it is based on holding the wort for a period at whirlpool temps, but I have to assume that flameout hops add some IBUs during the 5 to 10 minutes it takes to cool below 170F.

I just played around with that option for a recipe with 1 oz of Cascade added at flameout.

• Not Checked = 0 IBU (48.3 Total IBU)
• Checked / 0 Whirlpool Time = 0 IBU (48.3 Total IBU)
• Checked / 5 min Whirlpool Time = 5.1 IBU (55.4 Total IBU)
• Checked / 20 min Whirlpool Time = 10.3 IBU (63.1 Total IBU)

I don't see a Whirlpool Temp option (at least in Mobile). I notice that changing this option adds a little more IBUs to the 60 min and 20 min additions in that recipe.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Is that box for the time it takes to chill to 170 or how long you hold the temperature at 170? I assumed it was the latter.

The box is the amount of time it takes to drop to 170f from flamout. When you add whirlpool hops to your recipe you can select the temp and time of that addition as long as you choose whirlpool instead of boil. Hopefully they makes sense. Cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Here's a example on bs3 desktop of the whirlpool hops. CheersView attachment 627996