How to learn how different malts work, their taste and aroma?

[eltomek]

Hi,
I have brewed over 30 all-grain batches so far, all of which were either based on ready recipes that I copied or ready to mash brewsets of malts and hops.
Although I have gained hands on experience how to brew, I still lack a sense of how particular malts taste and smell so that to be able to tell what to brew and what proportions of particular malts I should use. But why is it a pound of Munich malt and not 2 pounds, or 3?

There are plenty of websites that describe characters that different types of malts add but the only way to consciously design beer is to understand and experience how it really works.

When you cook a soup you know how individual ingredients taste and smell: potatoes, parsley, carrot, salt, pepper, cream. You know it because you can taste and smell it raw, you can cook them individually.
For malts it's somewhat different: the final taste and smell of a ready product/beer is hugely impacted by fermentation process which is not done for individual types of malt. Of course, one can brew a single-malt pilsner, but then it's hopped, usually with different types of hops, so again, we taste the final product.
I wonder whether it would make sense (in terms of achieved results and conclusions drawn) to separately mash 3 ounces of Pilsner malt, 3 ounces of Pale Ale, Munich, Special B, Abbey, Crystal 30, 100, 300, etc and taste and smell them.
The same could probably be done for hops, although from my experience I see that the taste and aroma of unfermented wort is very intensive and obscures hop aroma and taste.

What is your approach to it?

Warm regards,
/e.

 

[balrog]

I follow recipes, to the letter, and find I like a particular person's recipes (@Yooper , I'm looking at you) or I make a recipe and find the "strong bitter" description of black patent should in my case be changed to "lick an ashtray". That way after several recipes that are somewhat similar I can say, wow, the english medium crystal makes a certain dark fruit flavor I don't see on using Briess crystal of similar °L. And then I can tweak up or down for roast, or crystal, or whatnot. But just like making food recipes, I really have to try it the way it is written first. I'm still trying to find a way to get hop flavor knowledge and they keep freaking breeding more of them and I'll never catch up.

 

[Dland]

I just brew away, 10+ gallon batches at a time. I'll pick a style I'm interested in and try several batches in a row with some variations, and note which aspects I want to pursue, sometimes push them, sometimes dial them back.

Since I stay within reasonable parameters of type of brew I'm trying to make, it is all good and drinkable.

Sometimes I will brew a SMASH to test a new brand of malt, or a specific yeast, but usually I just try them in known recipes and compare to previous batches.

 

[bracconiere]

I brew once a week, for 15 years....lol, and i don't really stress over recipes that much....really just throw a bunch of stuff in the pot and call it a day....

 

[Miraculix]

Just brew the same smash with different base malts and compare. Then use one of these and change 10% of the grist with different crystal malts, preferably you want the palest of your smashs top compare the impact of the 10% additions the best. That way, you have loads of nice beer and will learn a lot! Use a clean yeast, like us05.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I wonder whether it would make sense (in terms of achieved results and conclusions drawn) to separately mash 3 ounces of Pilsner malt, 3 ounces of Pale Ale, Munich, Special B, Abbey, Crystal 30, 100, 300, etc and taste and smell them.

It does make sense:

• http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/the-hot-steep-method-step-by-step-instructions/
  
• http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/malt-sensory-methods-you-can-perform-in-your-own-home-or-brewery/

Over time, I've done many of these techniques on my own or as part of a group.

The same could probably be done for hops, although from my experience I see that the taste and aroma of unfermented wort is very intensive and obscures hop aroma and taste.

Hop sensory kits would be one option.

BBR's "Hop Sampler" process yields a six pack with a short (and simple) brew day.

For "whirlpool" / "hop steep" sampling, heat the extract-based wort to 170 (or 180) and hold the temperature.

Going back to 2013 (without the wayback machine), https://hopwhisperer.blogspot.com/2013/12/single-hop-beers-part-1.html uses 90%/10% "two-row"/"munich". Note that Briess introduced Munich, Vienna, and Pale Ale DME in 2015 - so one doesn't have to deal with small amounts of LME. Steeping grains could be added by adding the grains at the start of the boil, then removing them when the temperature gets to 160F-ish.

Several Malts and a Single Hop: there's more than one way to SMaSH.

update: https://byo.com/article/ingredient-sensory-methods/

 

[applescrap]

Go into the lhbs and stick a handful of each in your mouth. I have done that at every lhbs I go into for years. Note, only do this with black patent once . Its funny that I do that because I only use recipes, but this is one of the best ways to get a taste for each grain.

 

[Miraculix]

Go into the lhbs and stick a handful of each in your mouth. I have done that at every lhbs I go into for years. Note, only do this with black patent once . Its funny that I do that because I only use recipes, but this is one of the best ways to get a taste for each grain.

Cinnamon challenge anyone?

 

[applescrap]

Normally I wouldnt mind your silly humor that much, but in this case its bothersome to me. One of the best things a brewer can do, who wants to formulate their own recipes is taste the wonderful variety of grains available. Even the same grains by different producers can vary greatly and quite frankly your attempt at humor detracts from the quality of the question and my answer.

Cinnamon challenge anyone?

 

[Miraculix]

Normally I wouldnt mind your silly humor that much, but in this case its bothersome to me. One of the best things a brewer can do, who wants to formulate their own recipes is taste the wonderful variety of grains available. Even the same grains by different producers can vary greatly and quite frankly your attempt at humor detracts from the quality of the question and my answer.

Im am sorry, I was under the assumption that the suggestion to throw "a hand full" of dry grain into ones mouth embedded already a certain amount of humoristic intention. However, tasting the grain remains certainly a good idea.

 

[eltomek]

Yesterday I did 4 separate samples of different grains put to hot water just to see if it would give a good way to taste/smell them and it indeed does make some sense.

I compared Crystal 30, Caraaroma, Carabelge and Abbey malts, prepared a glass of "mash" for each of them and, yeah, a good excersise basically - I should have tried it long time ago

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Good question and something I have been thinking about lately.

I have been at this for many years, and while I feel I have a pretty solid understanding of a lot of ingredients, there are more ingredients available that I either have never used, or do not really understand. I have had some focus this year on fixing that...to some extent...I can see where this might take several years.

I have been brewing 3/4 gal hop samplers based roughly on the Basic Brewing Radio process. This has been very educational, both for learning about new hops or understanding hops I have used in combination for many years. Plus you end up with 6-8 bottles of an enjoyable Pale Ale or IPA style beer.

I have done a handful of split batch experimental batches (say with different yeast, a change in process, or a slight tweak on a recipe). This has also been very educational. It is almost impossible to brew a batch 6 months later and judge how that minor change impacted the batch. There are just so many variables.

I have my first batch of a Single Malt Pale Ale made with Viking Pale Ale. I am debating if I want to stick with the plan to brew a 2.5 gal batch of Pale Ale every month or two, or to swap to brewing several 1 gal batches (probably with less hops). With the hops and yeast character in there, I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what flavors are from the grain.

I have done the Briess Hot Steep process. I see a lot of value in that, but I have a hard time translating the sweet grainy flavors to the final beer. I have played around with hop teas, but I did not feel like it gave the true impact of using the hops in the boil and fermenter.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am debating if I want to stick with the plan to brew a 2.5 gal batch of Pale Ale every month or two, or to swap to brewing several 1 gal batches (probably with less hops).

I decided that I did not want to brew 20 gals of a Single Malt beer over several months, so I decided to brew two 1 gal batches today. One with Crisp Maris Otter and the other with Briess Brewer's Malt (their standard American 2-Row). I was also wanting to see how my equipment and process would work for 1 gal all-grain batches and it went smooth. I overlapped the beers and it took 4.5 hours from start to done for the two batches.

 

[applescrap]

Sounds like it went well. Next time you are in the lhbs taste a few grains of each. Really. Give it a try. It is simple quick and a great way to taste 30 different grains quickly and simply. Haha, yes, not a handful. They taste like grape nuts cereal more or less. I have a friend that gives his kids simpsons double crystal or whatever it is called. I will give the glass mash a try sometime. Although it would be hard to bring 30 or 40 home I think. You will quickly learn which you like and which you dont. What you are doing is fantastic, keep on trying them and I hope you report your findings. If you want to get super serious bring a notepad and take notes with a tasting chart.

Yesterday I did 4 separate samples of different grains put to hot water just to see if it would give a good way to taste/smell them and it indeed does make some sense.

I compared Crystal 30, Caraaroma, Carabelge and Abbey malts, prepared a glass of "mash" for each of them and, yeah, a good excersise basically - I should have tried it long time ago