Hoppy beers a trend?
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Although I continue to try, I have NEVER had a Pils that I liked. And I have tried quite a few. They just taste bland and boring.
Maybe they are "easy to make", and "hide flaws well", and perhaps only sub-par brewers make them. But, if that is the case, I guess I will side with the sub-par brewers. Most of these "balanced" or "malt-forward" brews bore my taste buds. I like them bitter, and I like them to punch me in the face when I drink them.
The biggest reason that I started brewing was because most beers aren't "hoppy" enough for me. I often found myself sampling a brew and thinking, man, I wonder what this would taste like if we upped the hop flavor a few notches?
So I am sorry that the majority in this post get hurt when they go to the bar and see a string of IPA's and very few malt bombs. Some of us just like hops.....A LOT. Apparently quite a few of us, given the "trend".
wailingguitar
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Although I continue to try, I have NEVER had a Pils that I liked. And I have tried quite a few. They just taste bland and boring.
Maybe they are "easy to make", and "hide flaws well", and perhaps only sub-par brewers make them. But, if that is the case, I guess I will side with the sub-par brewers. Most of these "balanced" or "malt-forward" brews bore my taste buds. I like them bitter, and I like them to punch me in the face when I drink them.
The biggest reason that I started brewing was because most beers aren't "hoppy" enough for me. I often found myself sampling a brew and thinking, man, I wonder what this would taste like if we upped the hop flavor a few notches?
So I am sorry that the majority in this post get hurt when they go to the bar and see a string of IPA's and very few malt bombs. Some of us just like hops.....A LOT. Apparently quite a few of us, given the "trend".
Whether a person likes or dislikes pilsner isn't the point, they are difficult to brew properly because flaws in process pop out so clearly. Also, never said that ALL brewers that make the extremely hoppy beers are unskilled, I said SOME, and that they are easier to make than some other styles. This has the odd side effect of some brewers that are not as skilled as others making beers that are popular in the style. If it does it for you, that's great, have fun. For my taste, I find excessive bitterness to be unpleasant.
Considering the fact that I was brewing at Rogue at the time Brutal Bitter (originally called I2PA) was first brewed (1995), and actually assisted in the formulation, I would be the last to say that all of those beers and their brewers are bad. Two Hearted Ale is another beer that I have brewed on the commercial level, started at Bell's in '89, and while it isn't as huge as most of the beers in question, it is one of the earlier highly-hopped beers.
IMO, that is an untrue statement. At least here in Southern Oregon. From what I've seen from the local brewpub/nano's/beer festivals, there are people there that may have been beer drinkers without the trend, but now that beer drinking is en vogue, they are creating a trend out of it. Whether that is good or bad is up to you.
And since you mentioned sheep, I'm tired of fighting past the bleating hoards of beards, skinny jeans, vans, and wool caps to find a seat at the local pub.
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting point... people that may not have been beer drinkers before getting into craft beers because it is trendy... hmm Is it a good thing or not? I think, ultimately it is. I think that when the 'trend' passes that most of those folks would find it hard to go back to drinking BMC, the craft brewers will still see sales and while there is not always going to be growth, the worst we are likely to see is an occasional flattening. As to the issue with having to fight for a seat, well... I don't know what to say there except that I would rather have to fight for a seat than my fave brewery go under because no one was buying their beer... *shrug*
Gitmoe
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You should all try working at a LHBS and telling customers you don't really like hoppy beers... The look on their faces is priceless. People act like I'm crazy for not being a hop head. I feel like they assume all "Beer Nuts" are also "Hop Heads" for some reason. I respect and appreciate well crafted IPAs. I brew IPAs against my better judgement and to my wife's dismay (she's a malty fan as well). I can't help customers if I don't know how to make a good IPA. Knowing a lot of the local brewers and owners of breweries in the Philly area, I can say several have told me they brew IPAs because it pays the bills right now. IPAs are really popular and it's much easier to get a bar to put on a keg of IPA than something like a Bock or Munich Helles (both styles I really love). I'm working at a beer/food fest today (farephiladelphia.com) and expect to see the majority of the breweries in attendance pouring at least one IPA. I think the IPA craze will calm down eventually. It's just part of the US craft brew resurgence which is still relatively young and is a good thing for all of us no matter how you look at it. If IPAs are the reason I can visit 11 different breweries within an hour of my house, then bring on the IPA!
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So, what you're saying is that some peoples palates aren't developed enough to distinguish a good IPA from a bad one. And because of that it is easier to brew a good IPA than a good Pilsner.
I would argue that it takes more to brew an IPA that stands out from the others than it does a Pils. Good Pilsners rely heavily on technique and have a relatively narrow style space. This is something that can be learned. A top notch American IPA takes creativity along with skill. It's a style with more room for both success and failure for those who can tell the difference.
wailingguitar
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While it is true that the average consumer doesn't have a developed palate, that is not what I'm saying. I would agree that it takes creative skill to brew an exceptional IPA, that is true... but we aren't talking 'exceptional' beers here, I said 'popular', as we all know those two terms don't necessarily coincide!
Randy_Bugger
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I've been drinking craft beers for 30 years, even though I've only been brewing my own for the last year, and I see the "uber hop" thing as a thing that has probably peaked but is a normal evolution in brewing.
Over the years I've seen the "how dark can you make your stout", "how much spice can you fit in your holiday", "how strong is your belgian" and even the "how hot is your chili" beer. The styles stick around but they don't stay on top forever.
They are usually a rage for a while but eventually people want something more balanced. That's why the big guys like Boston Brewing are still around, they aren't afraid to experiment but they haven't built their success on "what's hot".
But I can't blame the local pubs and brew shops for making money selling what people want!
Good discussion!
Over the years I've seen the "how dark can you make your stout", "how much spice can you fit in your holiday", "how strong is your belgian" and even the "how hot is your chili" beer. The styles stick around but they don't stay on top forever.
They are usually a rage for a while but eventually people want something more balanced. That's why the big guys like Boston Brewing are still around, they aren't afraid to experiment but they haven't built their success on "what's hot".
But I can't blame the local pubs and brew shops for making money selling what people want!
Good discussion!
That is so true... They have to offer what people are looking for, otherwise they lose the sell. Same for bars/pubs/breweries if they want to make money and make a following, they have to have at least 1 IPA on their list. I find it funny when someone says that IPAs are a 'new trend'. American IPAs are perhaps new. True IPAs have been around for a very long time (1700s) where they were English Pale Ales that had more hops to help preserve them for the longer trip to India. Hence the name, India Pale Ale. Those have more in common with a standard Pale Ale than an American IPA. I like hope flavor and aroma, but I prefer Stouts, Sours and Pale Ales/Summer Sessions. Not a big fan of high alcohol and wheat beers, but sometimes that is all I see in the stores and in pubs, IPA this and Wheat that.
Mouse
Mouse
I was, in a poor fashion, attempting to point out the current hipster trend that is invading the craft brew trend. In my small, judgmental, and overly opinionated mind, I find the hipster look to be ridiculous.
I do agree with the long term benefits of converting people away from BMC. I am 100% in favor of the small guy and try to buy local as often as possible.
Erroneous
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I agree though I think hipsters will just move on to wine or cider. Maybe even classic cocktails. Then again some will grow out of being a hipster and still appreciate good beer.
Beerbelcher44
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Dang Im not a trendy type guy... Guess im going back to drinking BMC.Thanks guys .
.
Epimetheus
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Ah - an opinion thread. I can't be wrong. Rude, uniformed, and objectionable perhaps.
I am just beginning to try the bewildering varieties of craft beer. It takes me some time to develop a taste for a style. Hoppy is not as objectionable as it was, neither is sour or funky. I see hoppy beers as a way for people to break out of their habits and be more open to different styles.
I am just beginning to try the bewildering varieties of craft beer. It takes me some time to develop a taste for a style. Hoppy is not as objectionable as it was, neither is sour or funky. I see hoppy beers as a way for people to break out of their habits and be more open to different styles.
I'll chime in yet again. I suppose the word "trend" is being misused. I think somebody posted on here as it being an evolutionary process and I believe that is closer to the mark. People, even hipsters, are drawn into the craft beer "scene" and the most abundant, and up front, choices are going to be your APAs and IPAs. I don't think that point can be argued. Using my own experience, the next part of the evolution is to move away from the common and start sampling the other options. Be that a steam beer, bock, heff, scottish heavy, sour, or whatever. IN MY OPINION, the people that have the BMC mindset will stay hop heads, and the people that have more of a craft mindset will branch out and become a bit more diversified in their tastes. By BMC mindset I mean they find one style and do not deviate, much as a Budweiser drinker will not allow Coors to cross their lips. Whereas a crafter will always be looking for something different to challenge them. Neither way is bad, it is just the way different individuals think.
I think what we're seeing is a constant state of evolution with a constant influx of new people so the process never actually ends. Much as I believe this thread will pop up again in X amount of time asking the same question.
I think what we're seeing is a constant state of evolution with a constant influx of new people so the process never actually ends. Much as I believe this thread will pop up again in X amount of time asking the same question.
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You're assuming that consumption is trend based and not flavor based. I think that the trend will get drinkers to the table (or tap), but a taste that they enjoy will keep them there. The IPA thing has been around long enough that it's not mearly a fad. It's a stlye that drinkers enjoy and come back to.
I've been brewing for around seven years and have tried about every style. Right now I have a Mild, a Wheat, a Dunkel, and a Blonde on tap, but no IPA. The reason for that is the kegs are always the first to kick. I have to brew three IPA's to every other batch just to keep up. It's got nothing to do with being a trendy hipster. No one's looking at me when I pull the tap handle in my own house.
Why do people look down on others for enjoying mainly one type of style? I don't understand that. It isn't a "BMC" mindset. It just tastes good, plain and simple. I don't only like IPA's, but they are my preferred style for sure. Also, I tend to load up on the hops when I brew other styles. I like hops and the flavor/aroma that they impart.
I get tired of the accusations of being narrow-minded simply because I enjoy IPAs much more than Pilseners or Wheats. I think that some people are just angry because they don't get to have as many of the styles that they enjoy on tap at the local pub. So, they come up with insults like "IPA's are easier to brew", or "you must not have a well-trained palate since you don't enjoy this California Common". To them I say, maybe you just can't handle big hop flavor. Kind of like people that visit the southwest for the first time and get a good dose of green chili for the first time ever. They often look at us like we are insane for having green or red chili on pretty much everything we eat.
I get tired of the accusations of being narrow-minded simply because I enjoy IPAs much more than Pilseners or Wheats. I think that some people are just angry because they don't get to have as many of the styles that they enjoy on tap at the local pub. So, they come up with insults like "IPA's are easier to brew", or "you must not have a well-trained palate since you don't enjoy this California Common".
To them I say, maybe you just can't handle big hop flavor. Kind of like people that visit the southwest for the first time and get a good dose of green chili for the first time ever. They often look at us like we are insane for having green or red chili on pretty much everything we eat.
Interesting!
Not at all surprised that the regional results show "IPA" to have a huge left-coast bias, followed by New England.
California 100
Oregon 93
Washington 82
Delaware 82
Massachusetts 81
Pennsylvania 79
District of Columbia 77
New York 77
Illinois 75
Hawaii 70
Nor am I surprised to see lagers coming in tops in the mid-west:
Ohio 100
Pennsylvania 86
Michigan 72
Kentucky 65
Missouri 63
Massachusetts 62
Vermont 62
New Hampshire 60
District of Columbia 60
New York 60
But what I am very surprised to see is how stouts seem to be a very Michigan thang:
Wisconsin 100
Minnesota 47
Colorado 25
Iowa 25
Illinois 23
Indiana 21
Michigan 20
New York 20
Oregon 19
Pennsylvania 19
Interesting. When I talk about my most recent IPA or ask the LHBS workers about their kit recipes, they always come back with blank stares. They have no less than 7 IPA kits (plus extract versions), but don't seem to be able to qualify the differences between them in words. Nor do they appear to be based of readily recognizable clones based on the name. That seems like a pretty big whole in their knowledge base to me if they can't describe or differentiate their own products.
On the other hand, I've had a 15-minute conversation about Rauschbiers. Go figure.
GrogNerd
mean old man
aww.... that's not why we think you're insane
to live in a place where a baby's first words are, "but it's a dry heat"
is why you're insane
Good point.
GrogNerd
mean old man
Good point.
actually I think it's insane to live here, where "it's not the heat, it's the humidity"
dry heat sounds sane
Leaving the central valley of CA for a mid-July trip to see the inlaws in central NC.
That means leaving 95F 10% RH and entering 90F 80% RH. FML.
That means leaving 95F 10% RH and entering 90F 80% RH. FML.
GrogNerd
mean old man
kind of weather makes you want to step out of your skin and walk around in your bones
Gitmoe
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LOL. I think we have 5 different kits I would classify as IPA. I can tell you the difference easily. Most of them use different hop profiles. For example, one has all New Zealand hops. We try to highlight a specific hop character in each kit. That way they are noticeably different...
And that's exactly the kind of response they give.
I've never tasted "New Zealand". I don't know what a "profile" or a "specific hop character" tastes like.
Piney, citrus, floral, dank... these are just a tiny fraction of the kinds of words that help people understand what to expect from a certain IPA.
Here's an example of a description from their website, which does not appear anywhere on the kit.
Cute (even with the typo) but not terribly helpful if you don't know what Millenium or Falconer's Flight taste like or haven't had that exact malt combination in those ratios.
I've never tasted "New Zealand". I don't know what a "profile" or a "specific hop character" tastes like.
Piney, citrus, floral, dank... these are just a tiny fraction of the kinds of words that help people understand what to expect from a certain IPA.
Here's an example of a description from their website, which does not appear anywhere on the kit.
Cute (even with the typo) but not terribly helpful if you don't know what Millenium or Falconer's Flight taste like or haven't had that exact malt combination in those ratios.
GrogNerd
mean old man
sounds like they just threw the two hops together just to make the joke, with no thought whatsoever on whether it's a good combo
Me too. I love hoppy beers, and that's always my "go to". Just like some people like Diet Coke but will enjoy lemonade occasionally, that's how I am with beer. I'll reach for the IPA first, normally. And the stout is always the last keg to kick. And becoming "into" hoppy beers sneaks up on you. When I first started brewing, I thought Capitol Brewery's Blonde Dopplebock was the best beer ever. Now, I can still enjoy one but it's a malt bomb for sure and I don't want more than one. I can drink IPAs all day long, though.
I do notice some trends in beer, though. About 8 years ago, I noticed a trend towards wheat beers (wits) maybe due to Blue Moon? And about 4 years ago, I saw a huge increase in people who are talking about and buying sours.
I appreciate all beer styles, and feel confident enough about my knowledge and experience to judge all of the BJCP styles.
I still love the hoppy ones, though! But I also love super spicy foods, big bold tannic red wines, bleu cheese over any other cheese, etc- so I think it's just that I like more extreme flavors in my food and drink.
faithfull44
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I think that while it might be trendy now to like IPA's and really hoppy beer the style is not ever going to completely go away. The really popular beer may not be really hoppy IPA's but there will still be a good amount of them.
faithfull44
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The hipster profile isnt entirely accurate either or you havnt notice the hipsters that just drink PBR? I think it has to do more with the age of the "hipsters" and the local mindset they have that might make alot of them like the craft beer scene but I also know plenty of older people and even people in the stereotypical jock/pounding budlight profile that love craft beer. Craft is just becoming very big as people realize there is more to beer then BMC. Though it is very surprising how expensive beer got even more popular in a recession.
trujunglist
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I think this is being over thought a little. Even older people are turning onto craft beer. It just so happens that the polar opposite of a BMC lager is probably a hopped up IPA.
The saturation of the market with extremely bitter, over-hopped (IMO) beers is the main reason I got into homebrew. It really tweaks my feathers when I go into a store, restaurant, bar or even a microbrewery and can't find a beer that won't twist my face in a knot. I often ask the waitress to list the beers, then, disappointed and frustrated, order a soda. I can't stand any IPA I've ever tasted, much less an IIPA or IIIPA. And I've sometimes come home from the grocery store with a 6er of something new, tasted one, poured it down the drain and given the other 5 to a friend. What's the point? I've actually heard people, even a homebrewing friend of mine, say that because of the similarity between hops and "some other flowering plants" that the hops almost get you... well you know where I'm going with this. It's ridiculous. Even the pales and ambers out here in California taste like hop-rockets. I just brewed up a Bavarian Hefeweizen kit from one of the online HB stores and lo and behold, it was noticeably bitter compared to the German beer it claimed to mimic. Most people selling beer in any form in this country, or at least in California, assume that you want lots of hop bitterness. I think there is definitely a trend toward hoppy beers, and those are the "cool" or fad beers to drink. I don't think IPAs and the like will or should ever disappear though. That's a silly idea given how many hundreds of years ago that style was established, and why, and how long it has been brewed since. It won't disappear any sooner than the helles or bocks or true weissbiers or many of the Belgian styles I like will disappear. All styles have their place in history and on the bar or beer list. Hop-monsters just happen to be all the rage lately, and any smart business will stock what sells, even the LHBS. Doesn't mean I have to drink it though. Yuck!!! I just brew what I like (and add the hops later in the boil).
The saturation of the market with extremely bitter, over-hopped (IMO) beers is the main reason I got into homebrew. It really tweaks my feathers when I go into a store, restaurant, bar or even a microbrewery and can't find a beer that won't twist my face in a knot. I often ask the waitress to list the beers, then, disappointed and frustrated, order a soda. I can't stand any IPA I've ever tasted, much less an IIPA or IIIPA. And I've sometimes come home from the grocery store with a 6er of something new, tasted one, poured it down the drain and given the other 5 to a friend. What's the point? I've actually heard people, even a homebrewing friend of mine, say that because of the similarity between hops and "some other flowering plants" that the hops almost get you... well you know where I'm going with this. It's ridiculous. Even the pales and ambers out here in California taste like hop-rockets. I just brewed up a Bavarian Hefeweizen kit from one of the online HB stores and lo and behold, it was noticeably bitter compared to the German beer it claimed to mimic. Most people selling beer in any form in this country, or at least in California, assume that you want lots of hop bitterness. I think there is definitely a trend toward hoppy beers, and those are the "cool" or fad beers to drink. I don't think IPAs and the like will or should ever disappear though. That's a silly idea given how many hundreds of years ago that style was established, and why, and how long it has been brewed since. It won't disappear any sooner than the helles or bocks or true weissbiers or many of the Belgian styles I like will disappear. All styles have their place in history and on the bar or beer list. Hop-monsters just happen to be all the rage lately, and any smart business will stock what sells, even the LHBS. Doesn't mean I have to drink it though. Yuck!!! I just brew what I like (and add the hops later in the boil).
You're absolutely right. Although I've noticed that "session" beers are becoming more and more popular. I've gone through the hop-bomb phase and am becoming more interested in the late addition, hop-bursting, flavor addition with a minimal bitterness addition. The local pubs haven't fully caught onto this trend yet, but I feel as though it's coming. The high gravity, jaw locking, bitters still have their place, but a nice, flavorful, moderate alcohol beer will keep people in their seats longer and keep husbands from getting too plowed while mowing the lawn and burning some meat on the BBQ.
HOPJONES79
Member
Its not so much that IPA's are popular. Craft beer in general is "in". I dont see that changing ever. IPA's are in because people started realizing that there is so much more to beer than yellow bubbles. I am a complete hop junky. I have not always been and if I'm following a trend then I would have to say it's a first.
high5apparatus
Well-Known Member
Just published. I'm not condoning or promoting the article, just adding it to the discussion.
Against Hoppy Beer
The craft beer industry’s love affair with hops is alienating people who don’t like bitter brews.
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2013/05/hoppy_beer_is_awful_or_at_least_its_bitterness_is_ruining_craft_beer_s_reputation.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_chunky
Against Hoppy Beer
The craft beer industry’s love affair with hops is alienating people who don’t like bitter brews.
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2013/05/hoppy_beer_is_awful_or_at_least_its_bitterness_is_ruining_craft_beer_s_reputation.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_chunky
Has anyone looked at the supply and demand data? Do you think as many nano/micro/craft breweries would have been able to open without the surge of consumer spending we've seen over the past few years? Is that surge due to hoppy beers? I don't have data in front of me to prove anything, but anecdotal evidence suggests that the hoppy beer trend has increase demand across the board for all breweries and in my book that is a win.
I personally haven't seen a decrease in manufacturing of other styles, I just see a lot more IPAs. I'm sorry that all the non IPA drinkers are so unhoppy ;(
ps - its funny how people like to hate on trends that they dislike, then bring up the word "hipster" when in fact they are exhibiting similar characteristics
my two bitterly delicious centsipe:
I personally haven't seen a decrease in manufacturing of other styles, I just see a lot more IPAs. I'm sorry that all the non IPA drinkers are so unhoppy ;(
ps - its funny how people like to hate on trends that they dislike, then bring up the word "hipster" when in fact they are exhibiting similar characteristics
my two bitterly delicious cents
ipe:
Beernik
Well-Known Member
Stan H. Just tweeted this story too. He said the guy in the picture is brewing a lambic with aged hops.
And irony hangs itself.
Also, for being a beer writer the author doesn't do a very good job of explaining the differences between "bitter", "hoppy", and "sessionable". These qualities are independent of each other.
I drink IPA's and IIPA's because they're my favorite styles...they more consistently satisfy my palette than any other style out there. Does that make me a trend follower just because alot of other people like the same beers I do? Probably around 85% of the beers I buy/brew are IPA/IIPA's, but that doesn't mean I don't love other styles as well. I'm a huge fan of some BA imperial stouts, Belgian Quads, Tripels, seasonals such as pumpkin beers, and on and on and on, but overall my favorite beer is still an IPA...and there's alot of people out there just like me just as there are many out there like some of you who don't like hoppy beers. I can't speak for all hopheads, but I certainly don't drink IPA's because they're trendy or cool. They're good, and as long as enough people think so they're not going anywhere anytime soon.
